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#51 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 16 2009, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why? Who cares if he's not saying anything? What good does talking do? All Burke did was talk and he was criticized for it. What he needs to do is make moves to make this team better and he has two weeks to it. If we lose a bunch of games from here to then expect a lot of dumping. If we suddenly win a bunch expect a move for a d-man. If we're in the exact same spot expect him to do nothing because there's nothing he can do.

The players have to play, plain and simple. I saw 20 guys last night get out-worked by 20 guys that shouldn't have. The best thing for him to do probably is let most of these players walk next year and bring in guys who want to work hard every night.

I care. I have a bill for my playoff seats and another one for my 09-10 SSH commitment sitting on my desk.

And guess what? I'm not sending them any money because I have no clue what Bob Murray is going to do. If he is a "Hold the Fort" guy like you prefer, he's not getting any of my money if he's not saying or doing anything to convince me that things are going to improve.

If what he is going to do is bring in a new crew of slaves to play Muck-a-Puck for Taskmaster Carlyle, I need to know, because I don't believe that is the way to go and the best way I can communicate that is to close my wallet.

And how did the Anaheim Ducks get their name engraved on the Stanley Cup if all Brian Burke did was talk?

hmm.gif

#52 MrsBevo

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 02:08 PM

If you read the Register's report from last night's atrocity, Murray has been on a scouting trip to Europe and just got back.

#53 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 02:15 PM

QUOTE (MrsBevo @ Feb 16 2009, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you read the Register's report from last night's atrocity, Murray has been on a scouting trip to Europe and just got back.

Good to hear he's back.

Wonder what he thinks of how the fort has being being held, and what he plans on doing about it.

#54 TheJoeMan

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Feb 16 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I care. I have a bill for my playoff seats and another one for my 09-10 SSH commitment sitting on my desk.

And guess what? I'm not sending them any money because I have no clue what Bob Murray is going to do. If he is a "Hold the Fort" guy like you prefer, he's not getting any of my money if he's not saying or doing anything to convince me that things are going to improve.

If what he is going to do is bring in a new crew of slaves to play Muck-a-Puck for Taskmaster Carlyle, I need to know, because I don't believe that is the way to go and the best way I can communicate that is to close my wallet.

And how did the Anaheim Ducks get their name engraved on the Stanley Cup if all Brian Burke did was talk?

hmm.gif


But what is supposed to say? What good is does talking do? All I care about are actions. He'll do something. Something has to be done so let's just wait for him to do it. Improvement of this team isn't contingent on how in the know the fans are. If we lose to the Kings on Wednesday I am willing to bet heads will role on Thursday. Or by the deadline at least.

#55 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 11:23 AM

Here is the example set by the best GM in the NHL:
QUOTE
Red Wings general manager Ken Holland spent the past few days meeting with fellow front-office members and pro scouts in Naples, Fla., analyzing the Wings and the rest of the league, all the while keeping conversations flowing with the agents for Marian Hossa and Johan Franzen.

"I think we're in the ballpark, but we don't have a deal done," Holland said Monday. "They know I want to talk to Ritch Winter regarding Marian Hossa. Franzen's camp hasn't moved the extra mile, and neither have I. I haven't gotten quite as far along with Hossa, and I do want to explore that and then sit down with our owner and make a decision on what to do.

"I think we have a chance to keep both players, but that does mean other players have to move."...

... "We're trying to give ourselves the best chance we can heading into the playoffs," Holland said. "I want to go into the trade deadline ready to make a move if there's one we like."...

Helene St. James @ detfreepress

Holland has great success because people trust him... especially his players.

He is open and honest and has nothing to hide. He respects that his customers would like to know what's going on and that the press has a job to do. He recognizes that a little grease goes a long way.

We don't even know if Bob Murray is negotiating with anyone, much less how the talks are going. We have no clue if he intends on bringing back any of our pending UFA's, as he has not given a vote of confidence to anyone except Randy Carlyle. The only thing that there is to go on is rumor and innuendo, which he cannot control if he keeps his door shut and his mouth shut.

The Ducks desperately need something positive right now. Bob Murray is in the best place of anyone to provide that. A trade to bring in some real help (no more K-Mart shopping), another contract extension or updates on any of the potential for such, even positive words like "Scott Niedermayer is carrying this team on his back and he's not going anywhere" or "Bobby Ryan has earned his place on this team and is one of our cornerstones" would be of help.

Where are our beat writers? They need to do their job and press Murray for an interview, or tell us they have and have been declined or put off or scheduled.

#56 TheJoeMan

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 06:15 PM

QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Feb 17 2009, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Ducks desperately need something positive right now. Bob Murray is in the best place of anyone to provide that. A trade to bring in some real help (no more K-Mart shopping), another contract extension or updates on any of the potential for such, even positive words like "Scott Niedermayer is carrying this team on his back and he's not going anywhere" or "Bobby Ryan has earned his place on this team and is one of our cornerstones" would be of help.

Where are our beat writers? They need to do their job and press Murray for an interview, or tell us they have and have been declined or put off or scheduled.


Of corse he is negotiating with our impending free agents (or rather David McNab is) but why does he have to tell the fans? I really don't see how him simply talking to reporters makes a lick of difference what happens on the ice. For one thing, I think 80% of our free agents are simply going to get a handshake and a good luck with the rest of your career.

But you do bring up a good point about the beat writers. I'm sure Ken Holland was asked about the status of Hossa and Franson. Perhaps no one has simply asked Murray about our free agents. Or maybe our one beat writer doesn't care. I remember when all you had was a newspaper to get your sports news and a fan of this team didn't hear squat except for a blurb that said the Mighty Ducks just acquired some Finnish player from Winnipeg.

#57 PerryFan10

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Feb 16 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And guess what? I'm not sending them any money because I have no clue what Bob Murray is going to do. If he is a "Hold the Fort" guy like you prefer, he's not getting any of my money if he's not saying or doing anything to convince me that things are going to improve.



Don't expect much from Murray. He's been a disappointment this year.

I asked Brady, and he said State of the Franchise will most likely be a webcast. You've gotta be kidding me. They don't have the balls to face the fans whose hard earned money goes to this organization?

#58 432j

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 17 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of corse he is negotiating with our impending free agents



What makes you say that. The last quote on the subject that I recall was two or three weeks back, related to Pahlsson and Sami indicated that his agent hadn't been approached yet about an extension. At least that's my recollection.

#59 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 17 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really don't see how him simply talking to reporters makes a lick of difference what happens on the ice. For one thing, I think 80% of our free agents are simply going to get a handshake and a good luck with the rest of your career.

TJM, don't you see a difference what's happening on the ice between Holland's team and Murray's team?

Haven't you been complaining about the lack of effort and the lackadaisical attitude Murray's team often has, especially in their miserable games? You won't find that with Holland's team.

Don't you see the consistent excellence Holland's teams have had, even under different coaches?

That's my whole point. Take some tips from Holland: communicating and being open and giving people something that they can do their jobs with. His teams take after him... they play smart, they communicate, and they give each other something to do their jobs with. It's not a coincidence.

#60 Davison

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:42 AM

Murray better pull stars soon

#61 TheJoeMan

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:52 AM

QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Feb 17 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TJM, don't you see a difference what's happening on the ice between Holland's team and Murray's team?

Haven't you been complaining about the lack of effort and the lackadaisical attitude Murray's team often has, especially in their miserable games? You won't find that with Holland's team.

Don't you see the consistent excellence Holland's teams have had, even under different coaches?

That's my whole point. Take some tips from Holland: communicating and being open and giving people something that they can do their jobs with. His teams take after him... they play smart, they communicate, and they give each other something to do their jobs with. It's not a coincidence.


Detroit has better players, a better coaching staff and a stronger fan base. Their success has little to nothing to do with what Holland says to the media. It what he does that makes them great, not what he says. My whole point is Murray doesn't need to discuss his plans with the public in order for this team to succeed. I mean if you're talking about a person to motivate the team that's the coaches and veterans job, not the GM. I totally agree that Holland is the best GM in the league, maybe the best ever, but it's because of the personnel moves he makes, not his speeches.

#62 TheJoeMan

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:58 AM

QUOTE (432j @ Feb 17 2009, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What makes you say that. The last quote on the subject that I recall was two or three weeks back, related to Pahlsson and Sami indicated that his agent hadn't been approached yet about an extension. At least that's my recollection.


And a different article weeks before said that the Ducks had begun negotiations with Sammy and Moen so I wouldn't believe either of them. But, it's his job to negotiate with his free agents to be. I get this sense, not necessarily from you but from many, that Murray isn't doing ANYTHING. Like he's sitting around waiting for someone to tell him what to do. I know I'm exaggerating but this is the feeling I'm getting from so many. Just because the man isn't giving us a play-by-play doesn't mean he's not doing his job. The fact of the matter is there isn't a lot he can do in regards to making big changes with the team because we still don't know what direction we're going. You can't blow up the team yet because we're not out of it. You can mortgage the future for help because we may miss the playoffs anyway. We can't trade Pronger until we know what Scotty's going to do. I think our collective impatience is really fogging our perception and expectations of this man.

For the record though I'm not blindly on his side. I'm simply giving the man the benefit of a doubt and patience to do what needs to be done. I'm a season-ticket holder too(sort of) and I live and die with this team I care very much the direction it goes in the future. But I want to see this guy do things right.

#63 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:20 AM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 18 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Detroit has better players, a better coaching staff and a stronger fan base. Their success has little to nothing to do with what Holland says to the media. It what he does that makes them great, not what he says. My whole point is Murray doesn't need to discuss his plans with the public in order for this team to succeed. I mean if you're talking about a person to motivate the team that's the coaches and veterans job, not the GM. I totally agree that Holland is the best GM in the league, maybe the best ever, but it's because of the personnel moves he makes, not his speeches.

You can't exclude saying from doing. Saying is doing. Communicating is doing something. And I'm claiming it's a part of Holland's success. Everyone trusts him... the players, the fans, and his peers... and a big part of that is communication. Wait till you're married and you will find out all about that.

I didn't say Murray has to discuss his plans with the public in order for this team to succeed. But it certainly won't hurt, and there's plenty of common sense that tells you that it will help.

Don't tell me that Kenny Holland or Brian Burke don't drum up interest and sell more tickets with their openness with the public. They even say it's part of their plan. And more interest and more ticket sales mean more revenue, which means ability to have bigger sustained team payrolls. You don't keep teams full of Lidstroms and Zetterbergs and Datsyuks and add a Hossa, or have a Niedermayer (or two) along with a Selanne and 6mil worth of goaltenders and add a Pronger and keep the likes of Getzlaf and Perry, without having the ability to sustain a big payroll.

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 18 2009, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And a different article weeks before said that the Ducks had begun negotiations with Sammy and Moen so I wouldn't believe either of them.

Please give us a link to that article.

#64 TheJoeMan

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Feb 18 2009, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can't exclude saying from doing. Saying is doing. Communicating is doing something. And I'm claiming it's a part of Holland's success. Everyone trusts him... the players, the fans, and his peers... and a big part of that is communication. Wait till you're married and you will find out all about that.


I'm sure he's communicating with his team just fine. As far as him telling us anything what does he need to say really? I just don't see how him saying what's on his mind matters really to us. Honestly, would Murray inactivity on the media front really keep you from renewing season tickets? My father and I are going to renew because hockey is a very entertaining event and it's great for his clients plus my dad's psycho Ducks fan son gets to catch a number of games a year. I'm going to support this team regardless of how this year turns out. If Murray sits on his hands and does nothing when something could be done I won't be happy with him but it won't keep him from the Pond. I don't know, I'm not trying to criticize how you spend your money by any means. I'm just curious as to why all this would affect you to this level.



QUOTE
Please give us a link to that article.


Man, it was like a blurb in an OCR blog and I can't remember when I saw it.

But let's get on that subject. Should we be very concerned about our impending free agents not named Scott? We all love the Pahlsson, Moen, Niedermayer line but let's face it, they had one good year together. I think their collective and individual effectiveness has waned significantly. I wouldn't mind keeping Sammy around but I think he'll want a big pay day and I think he'll get it from Burke. Moen and Robbie I feel we can replace the both of them at discount, Robbie especially. I love Todd Marchant and would love to see him come back but at a big discount, one I don't think he'll take. Hedican has been good but he has no future with us. Huskins has already been replaced in my mind. Morrison? Ha! Honestly the only free agents I think Murph should make a play at, that aren't Scotty, are Montador and Frankie. We're in a weird spot with Frankie because of his injury. On one hand that might help us re-sign him cheaper than anticipated but on the other hand that's a major injury to overcome. Monty has earned a new deal but I fear the budget for him is only 900k-1 mil. He may look for more elsewhere, especially with how many points he's putting up lately. All in all I don't think he has many tough decisions to make regarding these players and there's really not a lot pressure to re-sign them right now.

#65 432j

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 18 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Honestly, would Murray inactivity on the media front really keep you from renewing season tickets?



I am not renewing. We have been on-again, off-again when we felt it was financially prudent to do so.

Here are the factors:

1) Economy/unsure if we'll be required to take paycuts or furloughs

2) No confidence that the club is going to be competitive and a belief that it is headed in the wrong direction (leaving games frustrated and mad is not good for my mental health).

3) Conflicts with playing schedules for me and members of my family.

None of that means that I won't be supporting the team or attending games, but our financial commitment to the club will be reduced.

#66 TheJoeMan

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 12:32 PM

QUOTE (432j @ Feb 18 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
None of that means that I won't be supporting the team or attending games, but our financial commitment to the club will be reduced.


Which is totally valid. It's actually my biggest fear for the future of this team. We're going to lose a lot of Season-ticket holders because of the economy and unfortunately because of our less-than perfect play. The latter is something I expect out of fairweather, bandwagon fans.

#67 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 18 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know, I'm not trying to criticize how you spend your money by any means. I'm just curious as to why all this would affect you to this level.

Not renewing my season seats will not prevent me from going to games or supporting the team, but it is the strongest message I can send to Bob Murray: I expect more of an effort on your part to communicate for the purpose of letting me know what I'm investing in. I will no longer blindly give my money months in advance. Your mentor, Brian Burke, taught me that. He made it perfectly clear in his time here that the strongest voice of the fanbase that he listens to is the SSH's, and that he feels a responsibility to them. If they are going to trust him with their money, he needs to let them know what he plans on doing with it... not after the fact.

SSH's are investors, because they give their money up front. They give up their ability to put out money based on how good the team is or how entertaining the team is at the time the games are played.

I have decided that I have had enough of Muck-a-Puck hockey to the degree that Randy Carlyle has taken it. I am not going to put out the kind of money I have been to witness the Ducks players being put at a disadvantage every game, even before the game starts. The frustration level of Ducks hockey has grown into one big "bang your head against the wall" event for players and fans alike. It's palpable in the arena, it's palpable here in the GDT's. This team is under-achieving, and it's not acceptable... period. I will not invest money in a hold-the-fort approach. I will hold on to it and spend it on games where I know there will be some fun, entertaining hockey being played at the Ponda. I can watch the Ducks on TV, where I can turn it off or walk away from it without blowing off the money and time I have invested by going to the arena when the frustration level dictates it.

I enjoy the improvements in the entertainment level of the game the NHL has made. Skating and passing and shooting are much more entertaining than the old clutching and grabbing and slowing the game down, or the new version of it that Randy Carlyle has his team playing. He either needs to evolve with the league and make adjustments to his approach, or go to some other city and put his penalty box-dwelling, swimming-upstream product on the ice. I am not going to pay for that garbage.

QUOTE
Should we be very concerned about our impending free agents not named Scott?

I pretty much agree straight across the board with who you'd bring back.

However, I would be making a pitch to Sammi at a reasonable term to try and maintain him as an asset for a future trade for help on defense, as well as shopping him here at the TDL, if possible (his illness is taking all the wind out of those sails, I'm afraid).

I would prioritize Scotty along the lines of making $7.45mil available for him (Lidstrom scale), but if Robby is part of his package then anything over 700k that Robbie requires would come out of that budget of Scott's. In other words, if Robbie wants 1.5mil, then Scotty gets 6.65mil.

So I would hope Murray is aggressively pursuing a commitment from Scotty, as well as trying to get a signature from Beauch and Sammi and Monty right now. The end of the season is coming sooner than later for the Ducks, so there is no time to waste.

#68 TheJoeMan

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Feb 18 2009, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not renewing my season seats will not prevent me from going to games or supporting the team, but it is the strongest message I can send to Bob Murray:


I respect your opinion and am sorry you feel that way because this franchise needs every devoted fan they can hold onto. I do disagree though that there's a wide spread feeling that the way the Ducks play is upsetting the fanbase by in large. I think a lot of people on these boards have been persuaded to a certain point of view of how we play and are annoyed by it but overall people just want to see goals, fights and wins. I for one have no problem with the system that the Ducks play but with the intensity for which they play it. I don't think it's an obsolete system at all, in fact I think it's the system that works best with the skill set of these players. The core of our team revolves around Ryan Getzlaf, Corer Perry, Chris Kunitz and Bobby Ryan. Those guys prefer to cycle the puck. That's how they score goals. I feel in order for the system to change these players have to change and I think that's a bad idea.


QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Feb 18 2009, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So I would hope Murray is aggressively pursuing a commitment from Scotty, as well as trying to get a signature from Beauch and Sammi and Monty right now. The end of the season is coming sooner than later for the Ducks, so there is no time to waste.


I'd like to bring Sammy back into the fold as well but wouldn't offer him anymore money which is why I think he will walk. Considering how he's played the last two seasons, minus him being dynamite on the PP, I don't see that being that big of a deal. I have high hopes for Petteri Wirtanen and it may be his time to prove his mettle. Or give Ryan Carter a shot to prove he's more than a forth-liner. One way or another we really can't afford many raises among our bottom-6ers.

As for Scotty. I think he can come back without Rob re-signing. This is Rob's last chance at a good contract and he won't find it here. If Scotty absolutely will not play without Rob and they both agree to pay cuts then keep them. I just hope that four years and cup was enough to quench their desire to stay together as teammates.

#69 DuckNewbie

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 18 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think it's an obsolete system at all, in fact I think it's the system that works best with the skill set of these players. The core of our team revolves around Ryan Getzlaf, Corer Perry, Chris Kunitz and Bobby Ryan. Those guys prefer to cycle the puck. That's how they score goals. I feel in order for the system to change these players have to change and I think that's a bad idea.


I for one agree. Getzlaf and Perry wouldn't produce nearly as well in a "run and gun" offense. They don't have the speed, and Perry's toe drag doesn't seem too effective. biggrin.gif

(Ok...He's cut way back on that move, so maybe he's learning).

#70 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:03 PM

QUOTE (TheJoeMan @ Feb 18 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The core of our team revolves around Ryan Getzlaf, Corer Perry, Chris Kunitz and Bobby Ryan. Those guys prefer to cycle the puck. That's how they score goals. I feel in order for the system to change these players have to change and I think that's a bad idea.


The Red Wings cycle the puck. The Sharks cycle the puck. The Bruins cycle the puck.

But the main difference is that they do it in order to get a chance to center it into the slot, where real scoring chances are had.

The Ducks cycle the puck for the purpose of puck possession, in hopes of winning the game 1-0 or 2-1. They do it to slow the game down and to burn up time, not to score.

They do it for offensive purposes. Randy Carlyle does it for defensive purposes.

That is a HUGE difference. Don't you see that?

hmm.gif

#71 JimmyWah

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:04 PM

i'm not renewing either. mainly because of the economy but i can tell ya....if we busted our ass every night i probably would be renewing and finding a way to pay for the seats.

the main thing for me is the effort.

randy's s*y coaching and the teams lack of hustle have turned me off to spending my cash.

i'll still buy individual games and watch every game on TV though. i'm a glutton for punishment.

#72 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (DuckNewbie @ Feb 18 2009, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I for one agree. Getzlaf and Perry wouldn't produce nearly as well in a "run and gun" offense. They don't have the speed, and Perry's toe drag doesn't seem too effective. biggrin.gif

(Ok...He's cut way back on that move, so maybe he's learning).

Who is suggesting that we use a "run and gun" offense?

I haven't seen one person in this entire website suggest we go from one extreme to the other. It's not all-or-nothing.

Don't you understand the difference between "making adjustments" and "scrapping the system"?



#73 jiggsawpuzzle35rules

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:14 PM

I say if the ducks and murray fail to do anything before the trade deadline, we as ssh should boycott the ducks for a game near the end of the season and not show up. What's more humiliating than 14,000 of your loyal ducks supporters not showing up?

#74 Todrick

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:16 PM

I just want to know why the entire team must play the same system?

I understand the checking line working the forecheck... the 4th as well...

but why does that prevent the top line running a dump and chase, bringing it out to the slot for shots?

or the second going all out speed?

why does every line HAVE TO play the exact same grind, grind, grind... system?

Why don't i think it worked this way in 06/07?

why do i remember some lines having players who screened the goalie(penner, with Getz and perry) and some lines relying on speed and skill (Kunitz, Andy, Teemu), while others beat you to death(4th) and that other one that was so aggressive on the forecheck the opposition would eventually cough up the puck or better yet, put it in their own goal(Finals Game 5 GWG)

#75 DuckNewbie

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (Todrick @ Feb 18 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just want to know why the entire team must play the same system?


That's a very valid point. The Teemu-Andy-Kunitz line was very different from the "kid" line, and the variety probably confused more than a few opposition lines who got stuck with the one they weren't expecting.

Which leads to, what I believe, is the real offensive problem this season: Absense of a productive second line.

I wouldn't change the Kunitz-Gezlaf-Perry line's approach at all. But getting a second line going is the priority in my mind. Last game says that MAYBE we have something brewing there...but it was buried in the poo that was our defensive play.




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