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The Cam Fowler Thread


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#51 letsgoducksdotcom

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (RGS_Quack93 @ Sep 28 2010, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I dunno I think you guys might be underrating both of these guys. Fowler has been very smart, making good plays, hasnt been trying to do too much, stays calm and has done a pretty damn good job, Sbisa as well. ...



With Fowler at least I agree with you. He is not trying to do too much, he is mostly making simple plays. He's in a big hurry to get rid of the puck I think you'll admit that. But he's been pretty decent. The point I am trying to make though is that at 18 if all you are doing is looking OK ... if there is nothing "exceptional" about him at age 18, there's no reason to have him up here making Brookbank plays. Brookbank is here for that. Send him back where he can make Cam Fowler plays.

With Sbisa I'm unimpressed. I don't expect him to be Scott or Pronger, but I expect him to be better than Mikk or Festerling, and I have not seen that yet.

I've seen Fowler play now 3 times. Sbisa about a dozen times. I don't see that either of them stand out in game situations. I know they have stood out at every level below the NHL, but I've not seen it at the NHL level. I like both of them as prospects, but I haven't seen either prove they belong in the league. Maybe if I had seen more of them, or maybe if I was at practice or something.

#52 HockeyHeaven

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:40 AM


I'm not underrating them to the extent of saying they don't belong on the ice. I haven't seen enough of them either, and I'm not an NHL scout, so that all needs to be taken into consideration.

My point is, on a more solid blueline, these guys would be borderline, and Fowler would be almost assuredly going to play down, where he could play more. I'm not talking about a blueline with Pronger and Niedermayer on it, either. If Lydman was healthy, and they had signed Volchenkov or Michalek or someone like that, in addition to either Sutton or Mara, then those two young guys would be battling Mikkelson, Festerling, Brookbank, and Syvret for the last two or three spots. And I feel neither of them would stay up.

That speaks to their youth and inexperience in the league as much as to their performance.

Sbisa will make the team, but not because watching him play makes you say, "That kid can play this game. He's going to make a difference."
Same for Fowler getting some games.

#53 Sojourn

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (letsgoducksdotcom @ Sep 28 2010, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's kind of just taking another swipe at our bad defense, but Fowler would not even be a consideration to make our roster a few years ago at age 18. The fact that he is in the running at all to get enough NHL minutes and hang around is a pretty good indication of where we are on defense. I almost hope he gets sent back down just because we have enough NHL bodies to not need him up here.
...


Myers didn't make the NHL right out of the gate. He needed an extra year. Hell, Scott Niedermayer himself needed an extra year. Needing a little bit of extra seasoning is absolutely no slight against him. Some people mature physically at different speeds. Some people develop as players at different speeds.

An extra season in the Major Juniors could be really good for him. He'll be the go-to guy in Windsor. Team USA is absolutely going to want him on their WJC team, and he'll play a big role on that team too. This is an opportunity for him to get lots of minutes, lots of responsibility, and it should make him a better player. I think this could be a very good year for Fowler.

#54 Sojourn

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 09:26 PM

QUOTE (letsgoducksdotcom @ Sep 28 2010, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With Fowler at least I agree with you. He is not trying to do too much, he is mostly making simple plays. He's in a big hurry to get rid of the puck I think you'll admit that. But he's been pretty decent. The point I am trying to make though is that at 18 if all you are doing is looking OK ... if there is nothing "exceptional" about him at age 18, there's no reason to have him up here making Brookbank plays. Brookbank is here for that. Send him back where he can make Cam Fowler plays.


I think Fowler is over-simplifying his game. Perhaps it's because he's trying hard not to make mistakes. He's playing like a 3rd pairing defenseman, which is a role he could probably easily fill this season for us. It's a simple game, and he's doing it effectively, but it's also not what we want from him. We want him to bring all of his talent to the table. We need him to go out there and be an impact player.

Maybe, on one hand, his physical strength is holding him back a bit. I think we can all agree he's not quite at the level physically that he needs to be at. That won't allow him to use all of his talent, not to its fullest. Certainly not against NHL players who are older, stronger, and more experienced than him. On the other hand, as I already mentioned, I think there's a mental aspect. He's cool and calm, but you said it yourself, he's getting rid of the puck quickly. He's making safe decisions when he does it, and I have to give him credit for that. But there are also openings, and opportunities, that he's not taking. After seeing what he's done in Windsor, and in the WJC's, I know he's capable of exploiting those openings, even at the NHL level. I just get the feeling he's not completely confident in himself yet, at least at this level. That almost sounds ludicrous, when you watch him play and see how poised he is. The kid seems to have ice flowing through his veins. But it really isn't the things he's doing that leads me to this conclusion. It's the things he's not doing, and I think that's the key.

#55 DuckNewbie

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (Sojourn @ Sep 30 2010, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think Fowler is over-simplifying his game. Perhaps it's because he's trying hard not to make mistakes. He's playing like a 3rd pairing defenseman, which is a role he could probably easily fill this season for us. It's a simple game, and he's doing it effectively, but it's also not what we want from him. We want him to bring all of his talent to the table. We need him to go out there and be an impact player.


I've been quietly....and maybe sometimes, not so quietly....hoping that Fowler made the team. He has the potential to be that additional offensive defenseman that we really need to flesh out the D this year.

My attitude changed after the last pre-season game.

I saw a couple of really poor defensive plays that convinced me it wouldn't be in anyone's best interest for him to stay past a few regular season games. (Of course, the whole team looked bad in that game, and seeing it on the really small screen of my computer may have led me to mis-interprest those plays). But to me, it looks like he's almost there...heck, probably better than most....in handling the puck. But Defensively, I don't think he is ready for NHL competition day in, and day out.

So, in the end, I don't think that he will benefit from playing the "safe game" that you describe, and having him play like a 3rd pairing guy. That sounds a lot like the "stunting his growth" situation that every team wants to avoid with young players. I think that allowing him to spread his wings in Juniors would be a better fate for him.

#56 DropThePuck

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:02 AM

QUOTE
Coach Randy Carlyle all but conceded that Fowler, 18, will be with the squad for possibly the first nine games of the regular season before the organization decides whether to send him back to his junior team.

If Fowler plays a 10th game, the first year of his entry-level contract would be triggered.

"We knew he has the skills and we know he has the skating ability, so we have to make a decision based upon whether he's going to start with our hockey club and get his 10th game in," Carlyle said.

<link to OCR article posted in Media Roundup>

#57 TroyLoney

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:02 AM

When's the last time, if ever, the Ducks had an 18-year old on their roster for an entire season? Personally I would make it a franchise rule that you do not play for this team until you are least 19 years old or have spent one season in the AHL. One season of college hockey, of playing in Europe, of the AHL or of being the big man on a juniors team will go a long way toward making you a better NHL player in the long-run and I like the Red Wings tendency to let their prospects "over-ripen" as GM Ken Holland says. Don't put them in and hope they are ready, put them in when you know they are ready to not just play and keep pace but to contribute to a winning team.

#58 letsgoducksdotcom

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:06 AM


And the guys that are good at 18? You know it right away. They are very rare, but you know it when you see it. Fowler is not that guy.

#59 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:23 AM


I believe the approach our suits have taken to the question of whether Fowler has a chance to make the team has been an exercise in "dangling the carrot". They know the odds are greatly stacked against him being a regular in the NHL at 18yo, but they want to give him, and everyone else, the impression that he's got a real chance. Encouragement for the player, excitement for the fans... a good move all the way around, player development and PR alike.

I can't say I'd do it any differently, really... especially given Fowler's situation. Remember he got discouraging input from the draft. Re-focus him by dangling the carrot.

#60 letsgoducksdotcom

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:29 AM



Yeah, I'm getting carried away trying to make my point, but you are exactly right. It also makes him look better if we use your "dangle" by trading him. It's a good plan I think, as long as they send him down (assuming he doesn't catch fire right away).

The 10 games thing is almost perfect .. if he's great KEEP HIM. If he sucks, then "hey look, big shot, you have a LOT of work to do" and if he's just OK, he knows he can compete. It's a good idea.

#61 HillerGirl

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (ladiesandgentlemen @ Oct 1 2010, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Re-focus him by dangling the carrot.

adorable puppies are not interested in carrots laugh.gif

#62 Just Duckie

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 11:23 AM


The Wings have the depth year in and year out to do this. The Ducks had the offensive depth in 2005-06 not to rush Getzlaf and Perry (plus the lockout year also gave them an extra year to develop in junior). Unfortunately the Ducks don't have that kind of defensive depth (or Ken Holland tongue.gif) this year. This is somewhat comparable to the Chistov situation. I don't know if Chistov ever really would have made it in the NHL, but the Ducks lack of offense was one of the reasons he was rushed into the NHL when he either should have stayed in Russia or gone to Cincinnati for an extra year. It certainly would have given him a chance to mature a little more physically, mentally and skill-wise.

And as a fan, I would be willing to give up another year of not making the playoffs in order not to rush the prospects or trade away the Ducks top prospects to get a veteran defenseman that may or may not get them into the playoffs. But I'm not management or ownership; it's not my job on the line or my money.

#63 TroyLoney

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 11:26 AM



You're correct and I agree with all of that. The Ducks don't have the depth and could use some of their young players, but they are not going to contend for the Cup this season with or without their young players so why rush them? Let them develop the proper way and then, in the future, they should have established the depth to be able to compete for the Cup and develop prospects properly at the same time.

#64 General:Moters

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:09 PM

I think everything and then a bit has been said about this issue. We'll have to wait and see how he does. There's no clearcut right or wrong in development approaches. At that age, another year in juniors usually is the best way to go, but it doesn't have to be. In his nine games up with the Ducks we will see how Fowler is handling himself in regular season games. I think Sojourn put that best asking whether he could be Cam Fowler in the NHL, making Cam Fowler plays instead of making Sheldon Brookbank plays (which isn't an offense). If he can't be anything special, another year in Windsor sure will help him. In that regard I find it pretty unfortunate for us Nashville is taking such a patient approach and also (already) sent Ryan Ellis back to Windsor as well, so that Fowler would not be much more of a go-to guy there than he was last year and, for example, would not be forced to utilize his shot more on the powerplay, playing next to one of the best shooters on the blueline in junior hockey.

#65 Rooch20

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:59 PM

Here's another food for thought:

I think Fowler could stay here and be able to play through 82 games and not get intimidated IF Scott Niedermayer works with him off the ice.

#66 MrsBevo

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:16 PM

Potential silver lining - even if Fowler is sent back to juniors this year, he is a December birtday. Next year he would qualify for the AHL because he would turn 20 by the end of the year. So it won't be another year of "here or juniors."

Do I think Fowler will stay? He'll get his look, but then he'll go, unless he is spectacular.

#67 Duckscrazy

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:39 PM

QUOTE (MrsBevo @ Oct 1 2010, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Potential silver lining - even if Fowler is sent back to juniors this year, he is a December birtday. Next year he would qualify for the AHL because he would turn 20 by the end of the year. So it won't be another year of "here or juniors."

Do I think Fowler will stay? He'll get his look, but then he'll go, unless he is spectacular.

Wait, so your saying he can go to Syracuse in January 2011, mid way threw the season?

#68 Still MIGHTY

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:40 PM

If Cam Fowler can play each of those first 9 games like he did tonight, I don't see how the Ducks send him down.

The Ducks would be cutting off their nose to spite their face if they sent him down at that point.

QUOTE (Duckscrazy @ Oct 1 2010, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wait, so your saying he can go to Syracuse in January 2011, mid way threw the season?


No, he can start in the AHL at 19 because he will be 20 by the end of the season. Whereas if he had a June birthday, he'd have to go through the Juniors or NHL thing again.

#69 Duckscrazy

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE (Still MIGHTY @ Oct 1 2010, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, he can start in the AHL at 19 because he will be 20 by the end of the season. Whereas if he had a June birthday, he'd have to go through the Juniors or NHL thing again.

Oh, so we can send him to the 'cuse right now?

#70 Sojourn

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:42 PM

QUOTE (Duckscrazy @ Oct 1 2010, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, so we can send him to the 'cuse right now?


He's 18 right now.

#71 Just Duckie

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:45 PM

QUOTE (Duckscrazy @ Oct 1 2010, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, so we can send him to the 'cuse right now?


No, for the 2011-12 season.


#72 Duckscrazy

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:47 PM

Okky dokky.

#73 DucksFan39

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:09 PM

Do we have 6 dmen better than him?
right now, no, we dont

#74 Sojourn

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:20 PM

QUOTE (DucksFan39 @ Oct 1 2010, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do we have 6 dmen better than him?
right now, no, we dont


That really shouldn't be the point. He'd probably be better off in Windsor if he ends up as a 3rd pairing guy in Anaheim. So, the question you should ask is: Do we have 4 defensemen better than him?

For Cam Fowler to stick around, I think he needs to play like he did tonight. We don't need him to be playing like a 3rd pairing defenseman, trying to make the safe play all the time. We want him to spread his wings a bit, and use his abilities, otherwise we risk stunting his growth.

#75 MrsBevo

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:33 PM

Thanks for clarifying the Syracuse thing for me. Me talk pretty some day....

Carlyle mentioned post game about how well Fowler sees the game. I'm still amazed that we were able to get him in the draft. Hopefully he'll be the guy that teams above us will kick themselves in the butt for not grabbing when they had the chance.





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