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#26 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 02:05 PM

While I am excited about Shea Theodore, I think it's ludicrous how much you are hyping him.

How many NHL games has he played in his career???

More importantly, how many NHL playoff games has he got under his belt?

 

Well I like the fact that out of everything I said, this was the only argument you could, or decided to make.

 

I hear what you are saying; small sample size. However, in that small sample size Ive been more impressed with Theodores first games than with Fowlers first games. If Fowler was considered ready, I see no reason why Theodore cant be considered ready.

 

Did Theodore ever look out of place in a game? Did you ever go "Alright, hes gotta go back down."? Becuase I havent. Right now the track record he has is this... While replacing Fowler in the lineup the defense has looked just a good and the team is scoring more.

 

And I dont think im hyping him at all. I think Im looking at what hes done to this point and saying "I dont think this team misses a beat with Theodore in for Fowler or Sami."

 

Playoffs is a different beast. Are you finally coming around tot he idea that they will make the playoffs? Concern is there, of course, but if I look at the trade offs I think the Ducks stand to gain more by bringing in a top 6 forward than what they would lose with Theodore int he lineup for Fowler or Sami.



#27 letsgoducksdotcom

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 02:37 PM

While I am excited about Shea Theodore, I think it's ludicrous how much you are hyping him.

How many NHL games has he played in his career???

More importantly, how many NHL playoff games has he got under his belt?

 

 

 

I'm usually in your camp. But I'm convinced. This guy makes us a better offensive team RIGHT NOW and doesn't hurt our defensive ability in the meantime. He's ready. The league it seems gets younger every year and is full of kids age 19-22 right now. Theodore should be one of them, and by the deadline I think he will be.



#28 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:33 PM

While I understand what you are saying, if you swapped Theodore for Fowler I'm not seeing any let down, only the very real possibility of more scoring chances.
 
I'm not worried about Shea Theodore not being up to the challenge, regular season or playoffs.  He's gonna take his lumps, that's the process.
 
 
If Cam Fowler (or Sami Vatanen) were legit #1 NHL Dmen who could dictate play and be difference-makers in the playoffs (like Keith or Doughty), then I would agree.  But they aren't.


How about swapping Theodore for Manson? Or Theodore for Depres?

More scoring chances yet with Fowler still playing.

Again, unless you have a chance to get a REAL difference-maker, I wouldn't water our blueline depth down. Especially the defensive side it, since we're talking about playoffs.

And I'm talking bigger than a Scott Hartnell, for example.

#29 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:38 PM

Well I like the fact that out of everything I said, this was the only argument you could, or decided to make.
 
I hear what you are saying; small sample size. However, in that small sample size Ive been more impressed with Theodores first games than with Fowlers first games. If Fowler was considered ready, I see no reason why Theodore cant be considered ready.
 
Did Theodore ever look out of place in a game? Did you ever go "Alright, hes gotta go back down."? Becuase I havent. Right now the track record he has is this... While replacing Fowler in the lineup the defense has looked just a good and the team is scoring more.
 
And I dont think im hyping him at all. I think Im looking at what hes done to this point and saying "I dont think this team misses a beat with Theodore in for Fowler or Sami."
 
Playoffs is a different beast. Are you finally coming around tot he idea that they will make the playoffs? Concern is there, of course, but if I look at the trade offs I think the Ducks stand to gain more by bringing in a top 6 forward than what they would lose with Theodore int he lineup for Fowler or Sami.


Yes, of course the I'm talking about the playoffs.

I seriously doubt that anyone believes we are going to be sellers.

I think it's crazy to think we can count on Theodore to be as defensively as good as either of those two. And it's all about defense in the PO's.

#30 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:44 PM

I'm usually in your camp. But I'm convinced. This guy makes us a better offensive team RIGHT NOW and doesn't hurt our defensive ability in the meantime. He's ready. The league it seems gets younger every year and is full of kids age 19-22 right now. Theodore should be one of them, and by the deadline I think he will be.


I'm not as convinced about the defensive side of the puck.

s*, he hasn't even played a quarter of a season. I can't expect him to transition just as easily to playoff hockey as regular season hockey.

#31 HockeyHeaven

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 04:25 PM

How about swapping Theodore for Manson? Or Theodore for Depres?

More scoring chances yet with Fowler still playing.

Again, unless you have a chance to get a REAL difference-maker, I wouldn't water our blueline depth down. Especially the defensive side it, since we're talking about playoffs.

And I'm talking bigger than a Scott Hartnell, for example.

 

I agree.  I wouldn't trade Fowler, Theodore, Lindholm, or Vatanen for less than a difference-maker, or a solid goal-scorer plus a first that would be top 10.  I don't know if any difference-makers are available. 

 

I would trade Manson or Despres plus a prospect for a guy like Hartnell or Skinner.

 

 

What about Vatanen for Brad Marchand?  And Manson, Maroon, and Kerdiles for Hartnell and a prospect?

 

Could we get any more douchey?  Perry, Kesler, Garbutt, Bieksa, Hartnell, Marchand.  That would be AWESOME!!!!!  Talk about hard to play against!  Annoyance factor of 10+......

 

The money isn't right but this:

 

Perron/Getzlaf/Hartnell

Marchand/Rakell/Perry

Cogliano/Kesler/Silfverberg

Garbutt/Thompson/Stewart

Santorelli

 

Bieksa/Fowler

Despres/Lindholm

Stoner/Theodore

 

would be fun!



#32 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 04:40 PM

How about swapping Theodore for Manson? Or Theodore for Depres?

More scoring chances yet with Fowler still playing.

Again, unless you have a chance to get a REAL difference-maker, I wouldn't water our blueline depth down. Especially the defensive side it, since we're talking about playoffs.

And I'm talking bigger than a Scott Hartnell, for example.

 

Then you are risking balance. Manson, Bieksa, Despres, Stoner.... those guys are needed to balance the blueline

 

And NOONE is saying you trade Vatanen or Fowler for just anybody. Of course you only do it for the right guy, a top 6 guy, a difference maker. Laad, Erikkson, Staal.....

 

Yes, of course the I'm talking about the playoffs.

I seriously doubt that anyone believes we are going to be sellers.

I think it's crazy to think we can count on Theodore to be as defensively as good as either of those two. And it's all about defense in the PO's.

 

Vatanen has never been a defense first guy and until this year, his defense was always kind of questionable. That never bothered anyone in the past. In fact, the only thing it made people say was "Well we need a good pairing for him then to make up for the lack of D." 

 

You're scared, I get that, but no risk, no reward. At least the Theodore risk is a calculated risk. You've seen his potential. You've seen what skill and knowledge the kid has.

 

I think you can look at this situation, which is partially going to be influenced by contract negotiations, and be able to make a decision that is best for the team now and for the future. 

 

If a difference maker is not available, then of course you dont move one of your better bargaining chips especially when they are semi-protected. But if that difference maker is there and you have the safety cushion that is Theodore, I think it makes any trade of a dman, much more doable 



#33 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 05:45 PM

 

I agree.  I wouldn't trade Fowler, Theodore, Lindholm, or Vatanen for less than a difference-maker, or a solid goal-scorer plus a first that would be top 10.  I don't know if any difference-makers are available. 

 

I would trade Manson or Despres plus a prospect for a guy like Hartnell or Skinner.

 

 

What about Vatanen for Brad Marchand?  And Manson, Maroon, and Kerdiles for Hartnell and a prospect?

 

Could we get any more douchey?  Perry, Kesler, Garbutt, Bieksa, Hartnell, Marchand.  That would be AWESOME!!!!!  Talk about hard to play against!  Annoyance factor of 10+......

 

The money isn't right but this:

 

Perron/Getzlaf/Hartnell

Marchand/Rakell/Perry

Cogliano/Kesler/Silfverberg

Garbutt/Thompson/Stewart

Santorelli

 

Bieksa/Fowler

Despres/Lindholm

Stoner/Theodore

 

would be fun!

 

 

The only problem I have with any of that is that many changes might be a bit tricky to mesh together before the playoffs.

 

Also, we'd need to change the team name to the Anaheim F-*-*-*-S.

 

And speaking of that, have I said F*** Ryan Garbutt! yet in this thread?



#34 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 06:02 PM

 

Then you are risking balance. Manson, Bieksa, Despres, Stoner.... those guys are needed to balance the blueline

 

And NOONE is saying you trade Vatanen or Fowler for just anybody. Of course you only do it for the right guy, a top 6 guy, a difference maker. Laad, Erikkson, Staal.....

 

I completely disagree... at least with your examples. Those guys are RENTALS. We are not contenders. Non-contenders don't trade significant roster players that are tied up beyond this season for rentals they can't afford to sign... unless your name is PHI, TOR, or NYR... or MUD.

 

 

Vatanen has never been a defense first guy and until this year, his defense was always kind of questionable. That never bothered anyone in the past. In fact, the only thing it made people say was "Well we need a good pairing for him then to make up for the lack of D." 

 

You're scared, I get that, but no risk, no reward. At least the Theodore risk is a calculated risk. You've seen his potential. You've seen what skill and knowledge the kid has.

 

I think you can look at this situation, which is partially going to be influenced by contract negotiations, and be able to make a decision that is best for the team now and for the future. 

 

If a difference maker is not available, then of course you dont move one of your better bargaining chips especially when they are semi-protected. But if that difference maker is there and you have the safety cushion that is Theodore, I think it makes any trade of a dman, much more doable 

 

 

As long as Theodore doesn't turn out to be a Whoopee Cushion in the playoffs (like Wade Redden), we'll be good.



#35 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 08:54 PM

 

I completely disagree... at least with your examples. Those guys are RENTALS. We are not contenders. Non-contenders don't trade significant roster players that are tied up beyond this season for rentals they can't afford to sign... unless your name is PHI, TOR, or NYR... or MUD.

 

 

 

As long as Theodore doesn't turn out to be a Whoopee Cushion in the playoffs (like Wade Redden), we'll be good.

 

I guess when you start catching up with my positive outlooks, I expand my optimism. I think this team can be a contender. I think we are seeing who the Ducks were supposed to be the entire season over the last 10 games or so. I think Perron is turning into what we hoped Hagelin would be for the team and think we are still missing a top 6 winger.

 

I dont think those guys have to be rentals. You might be able to pull off a miracle and get them extended if you are able to work with your cap numbers a bit. And the list doesnt stop with those guys, they are just the names mot often involved with rumors

 

Ive stepped back from my stance that we also need a #1 Dman because I think this blueline might be good enough without that piece.



#36 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:20 AM

I'm even more encouraged about Shea Theodore after seeing him in three playoff games, even though he's had a bit of a rough time.

 

The skills we've seen are still thriving, even in the much-tougher post-season environment.

 

He belongs in a top dine in this league. It's only a matter of time/experience before this kid establishes himself.

 

Not to jinx him, but he's a lot like OEL in his game. A lot of tools, and slick ones.



#37 Always Mighty

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:33 AM


 
I'm really looking forward to seeing what he does next year in what should be his first full year in the NHL.



#38 Kariya9

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:46 AM

He's gotten better every playoff game.  Those jitters can really be a factor.  



#39 dctrjayyy

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:03 AM

He's pretty good for a kid with nearly zero nhl experience. He has blown a few things in the series but is still way better than you can expect for a kid. My only concern is he is a dman who shys away from physical contact (see Fowler, Despres post concussion) but maybe that is just the inexperience.



#40 dctrjayyy

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:10 AM

By the way, we also have this kid Montour in SD that has an INSANE season (2nd in AHL D in scoring). If that kid can have any of that transfer to the NHL in the future, we're looking good



#41 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:12 AM

He's pretty good for a kid with nearly zero nhl experience. He has blown a few things in the series but is still way better than you can expect for a kid. My only concern is he is a dman who shys away from physical contact (see Fowler, Despres post concussion) but maybe that is just the inexperience.

 

Inexperience and probably strength to be honest. Hes 20, so he still has a few years of growth and physical development to go. Get him on a NHL training regimen and give him a couple years, hes going to fill out.



#42 Kariya9

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:13 AM

Still don't think he needs to play the PK though...



#43 Always Mighty

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:15 AM

By the way, we also have this kid Montour in SD that has an INSANE season (2nd in AHL D in scoring). If that kid can have any of that transfer to the NHL in the future, we're looking good

 

His offensive skills are through the roof, but he does need to get better in his own end. I'm hoping next year he really focuses on the defensive side of the puck. If he does that, we'll see him in Anaheim very soon.



#44 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:18 AM

Still don't think he needs to play the PK though...

 

Yes, lets go ahead and question the #1 PK unit. How many PP goals has the Preds scored in 13 attempts? 1?



#45 Kariya9

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:20 AM

 

Yes, lets go ahead and question the #1 PK unit. How many PP goals has the Preds scored in 13 attempts? 1?

 

That's a very good point.  But I just don't see how it could hurt to give one of the more defensively steady guys an extra shift.



#46 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:24 AM

 

That's a very good point.  But I just don't see how it could hurt to give one of the more defensively steady guys an extra shift.

 

Its how the unit is coached and their system. 2 defenders out on every kill. The more you can rotate your defenders, the fresher they are going to be. Notice too that Theodore is getting about half the time as the other defenders on the PK. Hes the last group to get rotated in on the PK most of the time. 

 

A good PK is a fresh PK. Best way to keep your guys fresh is to make sure more guys are playing on it.

 

Hes not going to improve by sitting ont he bench either. If we was as big of a liability as you seem to be suggesting, they wouldnt have him playing.



#47 Kariya9

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:35 AM

I'm not suggesting he's a Jessie Blacker type of liability or anything.  And I understand the science behind using 6 blue-liners on the penalty kill.  But this is the playoffs.  He can use the regular season to get better at penalty killing.  Teddy is a kid.  He still does kid things.  It hasn't bit us yet, but I just hope to god he doesn't rush the puck up the boards to a wide open Roman Josi pinching in at full speed.  



#48 ladiesandgentlemen

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:45 AM

If we was as big of a liability as you seem to be suggesting, they wouldnt have him playing.


I don't see anybody suggesting he's a big liability.

Just that he probably shouldn't be on the top PK.

Saying he's not one of the top two defensive defenseman is not saying he's a big liability at all.

#49 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:52 AM

I don't see anybody suggesting he's a big liability.

Just that he probably shouldn't be on the top PK.

Saying he's not one of the top two defensive defenseman is not saying he's a big liability at all.

 

K9 was saying Theodore shouldnt be on the PK at all, not just on the top PK.



#50 Kariya9

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 12:14 PM

I was.  And RGS may have changed my mind.  But I'm not sure yet.  I think Lindholm and Fowler could handle an extra 30 seconds of PK time each per game.

 

Speaking of Lindholm, count me as one who would like to see Lindholm play 23 minutes a night EVERY night for the rest of the run.






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