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Moving Forward to '17-'18


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#1 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:37 PM

2016-2017 was a shocking season. Many of us were flat WRONG about Randy Carlyle. Many of us were flat WRONG about the talent and ability of this team as a whole.

 

I am willing to say that this season was an absolute success, even if it ended bitterly in a series we should have won.

 

However, this is finally a season where I can say, we actually lost to a team that was at least as-good as we were. Seasons past, I have given them no excuses. I still think that after losing their top 2 centers we should have steamrolled them, but that team was riding high and backup up by a Conn Smythe effort in Rinne.

 

::End Rant::

 

Looking forward...

 

This team needs to re-tool. They need to shed some fat. They need to dump salary. Need to make one or two KEY trades starting now.

 

Vatanen. It was nice knowing ya, but as a popular ex-players likes to say "pack your s*". Vatanen needs to be traded to TOR prior to the expansion draft. The only exception is if BMGM doesnt feel he can get an extension done with Fowler. Vatanen or Fowler need to be shipped prior to the expansion draft; Vatanen, first out the door.

 

Bieksa -waive your NMC or enjoy your buyout check

 

Perry - please talk to BMGM about a possible trade, or turn your s*wagon around and start playing like a $8mil guy again.

 

YOUTH - keep it up. future is bright. Montour really impressed me in this last series. Theodore has to stop trying to impress so much; he can do it without trying. Ritchie, just work on your situational awareness a bit and continue on whatever plan RC has for you. Kase, time to start being more consistent. If you dont, you'll got he way for Bobby and Palmieri.

 

We could be seeing some new, young faces in ANA next season. Going to have to be open to some trades in order to give some balance to our blueline.

 

Berier/Eaves - BYE. Will probably both cost too much. Berier would be ok at $2mil. Eaves has a bad injury record; unreliable. 

 

Im bringing Thompson back. Holzer can be resigned. Stoner is being moved with Vatanen; Ill take a lesser package back. 



#2 ducks4adam98

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:52 PM

Ironic that the most likely outcome for Bieksa to stay in Anaheim might be to waive his NMC! (I could be wrong here, but it's funny to think about... by waiving the NMC he doesn't need to be protected and it's unlikely the Knights pick him... so he would remain on the Ducks right? Whereas if he didn't waive it the Ducks would probably just buy him out, so good luck finding a job?)

 

I agree with pretty much everything. I'd like to pour my thoughts out about what I saw, might save it for tomorrow. Offseason starts now, can't use up all my talking points now!



#3 dctrjayyy

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 08:05 PM

all good stuff



#4 Kariya9

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 09:18 PM

Vatanen for a good young forward to carry on to the next generation of Anaheim contention.

#5 HockeyHeaven

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 10:02 PM

Vatanen and Perry are really must moves, imo.

 

Ritchie, Kase, Rakell and Silfverberg have to get better.  They are all average (top-9) to very good, but they are the future offense.

 

I think you have to make Rakell a C and find a W for him.

 

 

Getzlaf/Ritchie

Rakell/Silfverberg

Kesler/Kase

Thompson/Wagner

 

Fowler or Vatanen/Manson

Lindholm/Montour

 

Gibson

 

 

I think that's who you build around, and every other name is movable. Perry, Vatanen, Cogliano, Bieksa, Vermette, Shaw, Boll, Stoner, Kerdiles - all under contract or RFA's, all movable.  I don't dislike any of those guys, and love some of them, but it's time to move on.

 

I'd break up the Kesler line, get Silfverberg playing with Rakell as your second line, have Kase take over the "Shut Down" role with Kesler, make that your third line.

 

I'd look long and hard at Jones, Steel, Larsson, Sorensen, Nattinen, Megna, Kossila, Roy.  They can come up and play with some veterans on their line/pairing, and you need young, cheap, fast guys in this day and age.



#6 HockeyHeaven

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:08 AM

I think the two guys that can bring back the best return as part of a deal are Rakell and Fowler.

 

And you can't really afford to move Rakell, unless you get back TWO talented young forwards.

 

You can afford to move Fowler, imo.  I love the kid, he's a very good hockey player, but he once again - 5 straight years - is a big part of a group that isn't quite good enough.  And there are players in the system ready to take the next step. 

 

Are there any trades for young scoring forwards in return for Fowler that make sense?



#7 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:51 AM

I think the two guys that can bring back the best return as part of a deal are Rakell and Fowler.

 

And you can't really afford to move Rakell, unless you get back TWO talented young forwards.

 

You can afford to move Fowler, imo.  I love the kid, he's a very good hockey player, but he once again - 5 straight years - is a big part of a group that isn't quite good enough.  And there are players in the system ready to take the next step. 

 

Are there any trades for young scoring forwards in return for Fowler that make sense?

 

After what you saw from Vatanen all season, you really want to trade Fowler instead of Sami?

 

Only reason Im trading Fowler is if Murray doesnt feel he can get a deal done with him for a fair price.

 

Sami can bring you back enough to replace Eaves with a top 6 winger. Good enough for me.



#8 HockeyHeaven

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:57 AM

 

After what you saw from Vatanen all season, you really want to trade Fowler instead of Sami?

 

Only reason Im trading Fowler is if Murray doesnt feel he can get a deal done with him for a fair price.

 

Sami can bring you back enough to replace Eaves with a top 6 winger. Good enough for me.

 

Only if it is the difference between a so-so forward and a really good forward.

 

I've seen plenty of Cam Fowler.  He's getting to the age where he will be at his prime.  I think this season is about where his ceiling is.  I don't see him becoming a dominant force in the league after some more games under his belt.  I think what you see is what you get.

 

I'll be interested to see what Sami can bring back.  A lot of this discussion hinges on what Fowler wants to get paid.  If he wants $6.75 mil or more for 6 and DET will trade you Mantha or Anthamaseeyalater or whatever his name is for that if you sign Cam, then I'm curious.



#9 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:08 AM

Fowler just had an All-Star caliber season, so if thats his ceiling, if thats what we see and get, Im all for it. He is, if nothing else, extremely reliable. He is also a calm and collected veteran presence on a very young blueline. He is the anchor to that blueline.

 

I think we saw that Sami can be replaced by our depth.

 

There are talks that Sami brings you back JVR+futures. Now, its not ideal due to age and the fact that JVR only has 1 season left on his deal, but if thats the ballpark, Ill take it.

 

You are also talking about making a deal BEFORE the expansion draft. DET has no motivation to trade a forward prior to the draft due to their current situation. I see us moving one of our D for a forward that another team has to move to make space of their own on protections.



#10 HockeyHeaven

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:33 AM

Fowler just had an All-Star caliber season, so if thats his ceiling, if thats what we see and get, Im all for it. He is, if nothing else, extremely reliable. He is also a calm and collected veteran presence on a very young blueline. He is the anchor to that blueline.

 

I think we saw that Sami can be replaced by our depth.

 

There are talks that Sami brings you back JVR+futures. Now, its not ideal due to age and the fact that JVR only has 1 season left on his deal, but if thats the ballpark, Ill take it.

 

You are also talking about making a deal BEFORE the expansion draft. DET has no motivation to trade a forward prior to the draft due to their current situation. I see us moving one of our D for a forward that another team has to move to make space of their own on protections.

 

Besides JVR are there any other plausible scenarios for that trade?



#11 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:02 AM

 

Besides JVR are there any other plausible scenarios for that trade?

 

Havent really dived into those scenarios yet. There are probably 5 or 6 teams who will fit the needs of a trade to save forwards/D depending on scenarios though. Gotta look for the teams who dont want to lose players for nothing and would be 'forced' into a trade that benefits both sides.



#12 Rooch20

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:26 AM

Which goes back to Anaheim D-man to Detroit for Tatar/Nyquist



#13 ducks4adam98

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:29 AM

Vatanen fell off a cliff IMO. Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I thought he used to be a different player. Bulldog tenacity with a rocket of a shot. When was the last time he let one rip? When was the last time he hounded the puck and earned a takeaway? He's a turnover machine now, and not in the good way!



#14 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:29 AM

Which goes back to Anaheim D-man to Detroit for Tatar/Nyquist

 

They have no motivation to do that prior tot he expansion draft. Tatar doesnt appear to be eligible and Nyquist can be protected



#15 ducks4adam98

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:31 AM

I also feel like Fowler is great but I waiver between him being our #1 anchor for years and being way overrated. He didn't really stand out against the competition in the playoffs, at least not to me. He wasn't bad he just didn't stand out against teams that I feel like he could have been the best defenseman out there.



#16 RGS_Quack93

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:35 AM

I also feel like Fowler is great but I waiver between him being our #1 anchor for years and being way overrated. He didn't really stand out against the competition in the playoffs, at least not to me. He wasn't bad he just didn't stand out against teams that I feel like he could have been the best defenseman out there.

 

Fowler was our #1 this season, but I dont think hes a #1 Dman. That seat still belongs to Lindholm. That doesnt mean that Fowler isnt a damn good #2 who is very reliable and anchors the D in a way that Beauchemin used to.



#17 letsgoducksdotcom

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:35 AM

Just as an overall comment, I think we are so far ahead of where I expected at this point.

 

My enthusiasm is because we have, in fact, developed some young players while continuing to win the Pacific EVERY year, and finally to make a decent little playoff run this year.

 

Yes, we have 3 aging forwards, but they aren't done yet - and we've managed to not replace, but at least supplement them with very very credible players.

 

Silfver

Rakell

Montour

Kase

Manson

Richie

 

These guys all came up big this year and all, IMO, will only get better. 

 

YES, the CORE is still really Getz and Kesler and we will have to deal with their age sooner rather than later, but we've already moved past Perry sucking. 

 

I'm not sure what's gonna emerge after this expansion draft and offseason. We could see a big shift somewhere. But I think these guys will all get better again next year, and that's gonna help remove some of the "sting" from getz and kes being a year older.

 

It's not an ideal situation, but it's not the situation I had dreaded - NOTHING to replace these guys and Perry/Getz being our best players for the next 3 or 4 years as they get older and worse. Already Perry IMO is in a situation where he can play like crap and still we get to the WCF.

 

The answer to me still remains in this issue - when Bieksa was hurt we iced 6 dmen ALL OF WHOM we drafted and all of whom are still 25 or under. We have to take advantage of that and get a Perry/Kesler/Getz replacement ... a SOLID top 6 youth guy with that GREAT drafting. 

 

It will be an interesting off season.



#18 Rooch20

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 02:11 PM

LGD, I think that you are short-changing Rakell in a way.  He's under 25 and he's already scored 30+ goals in a season where he didn't even play 82 games.  In a way, he's already replaced Perry's goal scoring production plus, he can play both at Center or at the Wing.  He's going to be a part of this core in the near future.  The bigger question, now, is whether or not he, or someone else, is capable of replacing Ryan Getzlaf 3-4 years from now.  Sam Steel had a solid season in the WHL this year but is still unproven at the Professional level.  Maybe that will be the one thing that the Ducks ought to be looking into this summer.



#19 letsgoducksdotcom

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 02:55 PM

LGD, I think that you are short-changing Rakell in a way.  He's under 25 and he's already scored 30+ goals in a season where he didn't even play 82 games.  In a way, he's already replaced Perry's goal scoring production plus, he can play both at Center or at the Wing.  He's going to be a part of this core in the near future.  The bigger question, now, is whether or not he, or someone else, is capable of replacing Ryan Getzlaf 3-4 years from now.  Sam Steel had a solid season in the WHL this year but is still unproven at the Professional level.  Maybe that will be the one thing that the Ducks ought to be looking into this summer.

 

I was thinking really along the lines that Rakell makes us already not have a problem with Perry dropping off. I agree with you - I just think you line up our young forward with our SIX "young" HOMEGROWN DMEN and the imbalance is still there. 



#20 HockeyHeaven

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:28 PM

 

I was thinking really along the lines that Rakell makes us already not have a problem with Perry dropping off. I agree with you - I just think you line up our young forward with our SIX "young" HOMEGROWN DMEN and the imbalance is still there.

 

It is for sure.  Same old song: swap young D for young F.



#21 QuackHead

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:58 PM

they need to trade Gibson. He's too injury prone. That was my only reservation about committing to him long term. Look what happens, he gets injured during the conference final, an elimination game to boot. His health is unreliable, I don't want him as their #1 goalie.



#22 Rooch20

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:22 PM

they need to trade Gibson. He's too injury prone. That was my only reservation about committing to him long term. Look what happens, he gets injured during the conference final, an elimination game to boot. His health is unreliable, I don't want him as their #1 goalie.

Who'd be your no. 1 then?  I think the bigger question here is the goalie coach.



#23 rollingdux

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:15 PM

Who'd be your no. 1 then?  I think the bigger question here is the goalie coach.


I don't think it's a goalie coach issue. They had Roloson before this and whichever they had in AHL. Eye test, Gibson's issues are still the same from day one.

To me it seems like a lack of focus and discipline in these areas. Relying more on the athleticism and talent side of his style rather than the structure side.

That was one of the things I really appreciated about Freddie in that he took an area of his game to work on each summer and you saw his growth each yr.

Now, This was also Gibson's first full season. So maybe now he and the new goalie coach have a sense of what he needs to work on. Or set up a different regiment. Chances are he's only going to get better. He was one of the better goalies this year and got better as season moved on. He has best games in game 7 and through NSh series.

So trading Gibson's a no go.

#24 QuackHead

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:51 PM

John Gibson age 23    (Injured game 6 WCF)

 

2016-2017 May 21 Lower-body injury day-to-day

2016-2017 Mar 12 Lower-body injury day-to-day

2016-2017 Feb 22 Lower-body injury day-to-day

2015-2016 Apr 10 Lower-body injury day-to-day

2015-2016 Mar 17 Illness day-to-day

2015-2016 Feb 14 Upper-body injury day-to-day

2015-2016 Jan 7 Lower-body injury day-to-day

2015-2016 Jan 6 Lower-body injury day-to-day

2014-2015 Apr 11 Hand day-to-day

2014-2015 Nov 2 Lower-body injury day-to-day

 

 

Pekka Rinne age 34  (Won game 6 WCF)

 

 

2016-2017 Nov 15Lower-body injuryday-to-day

2016-2017 Oct 22Illnessday-to-day

2014-2015 Jan 14Sprained kneeday-to-day

2014-2015 Jan 13Left game-Lower-body injuryday-to-day

 

 

 

You want to keep Gibson? Prepare for multiple injuries every season and ?'s going into the post season. The kid's a band-aid at the age of 23.



#25 ducks4adam98

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:26 PM

I'll probably get bored enough to do this for each position but here are my thoughts on the goalies. Weighted pretty heavily for the playoffs.

 

Gibson = B. This is a tough one, the guy is Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde in pads. When he's on, he can match up with anyone in the other net and shut down the hottest teams. When he's not he can be average and sometimes scary to watch. Or he's injured. He seems to split his time pretty evenly in those three modes which is not going to get him to elite status. He did just finish his first full season as starter... and his stats improved from last year, which is the only other season to compare with. I have no concerns with him being our goalie, taking into account all his positives and negatives we're definitely in the upper half of teams for goalie situations. Plus, goalies typically get horrible returns in trades. There's really no outcome where we get rid of Gibson and come out better in net.

 

Bernier = A-. RGS hear me out! I don't think Bernier was more valuable or better than Gibson. Giving him the higher grade is purely situational. He was the backup, and he did everything I want a backup to do, and more. He took over when Gibby had to be pulled, and to my memory we won more than one of those games which is neat (one in the playoffs!). He stepped in for Gibby's injuries and played better than most starters during that time. He took an extended streak of starts. He would be an easy "A+" if it wasn't for that huge egg he laid in Game 6. I can't justify taking too much away from him for that, it wasn't all his fault and he was just so good for the other 40 games he was involved in.






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