37 replies to this topic

[Dark Knight]

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has repeatedly said that Olympic participation will require extensive discussions between the league and the NHL Players' Association.

Bettman said shutting down the league for two weeks creates problems - particularly when the Games are staged outside of North America.

LINK

Should NHL players play in the Olympics, or should it go back to college players?

[Reb]

Why should the NHL get the exposure and not other programs, like the Swedish elite, the Russian elite, the German, the Swiss, the English and any other country that has a program similar to the NHL? No, I say keep the NHL the NHL and let the kids play. I'm not asking for the BEST players; I'm asking for the RIGHT players, the HUNGRIEST players and those players are the up and comers. The College kids and/or college age kids. I want to see teams like the 1980 American Olympic Team. A team that had heart and passion and a do or die attitude. I want to see coaching staffs that HATE to lose. I don't want much, do I?

[ducksfan13]

I don't want much, do I?

no... couldnt have said it better myself

[2forroughing]

I preferred to see our amateur athletes competing in the Olympic games. I know that not all nations followed the rules which resulted in many lopsided battles, but as a nation we knew that we were doing it right and that our guys went up against some powerhouses.

If not for this system, we would never have had the "Miracle on Ice". We will probably never see anything like that again... unless the Jamaican bobsled team puts together a hockey team and upsets the Canadians.



Apart from the Olympics; however, I would love to see some exhibition games between NHL and KHL or other leagues.

[20rules]

I vote No!

[Reb]

I see that those who voted "yes" are too chicken to own up to it and explain why they voted "yes."
Oh well, life is not perfect and neither am I.

[RGS_Quack93]

I went for no but really I am a little undecided. It is nice to see the best of the best playing it out but then you have a couple problems:

1) Injuries - these guys are paid to play for their respective clubs, if they get injured it seems a bit wrong and unfair to the team paying the player.
2) Origin - The Olympics werent created for Pros they were created for amateurs.

Maybe we should have some other form of World Championships played in the off-seasons for the Pros to go at it.

[DUX714]

I see that those who voted "yes" are too chicken to own up to it and explain why they voted "yes."
Oh well, life is not perfect and neither am I.

I voted yes. Why? IMO opinion if you are going to have the best snowboarders, best skiers in the World you owe it to the World to have the best hockey players in the world as well.

I am fully aware of the negatives... injuries, impact it could have on a team and players in the NHL but in reality it kind of makes it that much more intriguing for me.

Plus, I likw the winter Olympics and if the NHL didn't break, I would get to watch a lot less of the Olympics than I do now.

2) Origin - The Olympics werent created for Pros they were created for amateurs.

\

I disagree with this statement. The figure & speed skaters, skiers of the past Olympics have always been the best in the World. Simply because they were not in a league did not mean they were amatures.
Could you imagine the Olympics without Sean White this year? That would be like cereal without milk!!

[Reb]

Thank you DUX714. I appreciate your willingness to state your reasons.

[Duckbill]

Voted yes for reasons Dux714 has already stated. I'm definitely much more excited to watch olympic sports such as basketball and hockey when the best players in the world are playing. If NHL players didn't participate and the NHL competed with the Olympics, i'd pick the NHL for the quality of play.

Plus, what about players who don't want to have to choose between their country and the career they have dreamed of?

From an American perspective, it's good to have teams that can compete with other countries professional teams. If this sport is going to have a better future in the US, then we need to look good internationally and have a strong team that puts up strong showings.

[Duckette]

I understand that excitement is added when our favorite pros play, but I still believe the amateurs should get a shot and NHLers shouldn't be allowed. They want a shot at the gold, then play when they're younger. The need to choose between the Cup and the Gold. Not both.

[Reb]

Voted yes for reasons Dux714 has already stated. I'm definitely much more excited to watch olympic sports such as basketball and hockey when the best players in the world are playing. If NHL players didn't participate and the NHL competed with the Olympics, i'd pick the NHL for the quality of play.

I'm not being sarcastic when I ask, "We're you born prior to 1980? Those "kids" gave everything they had and defeated "The Big Red Machine" and then went on to win the gold medal. From an American perspective I can tell you that it is more thrilling to watch up and coming "kids" competing and giving it their all on a world stage than seasoned professionals. If I may sorta quote a favorite coach, "I'm not lookin' for the BEST players, ... , I'm lookin' for the RIGHT players."

[RGS_Quack93]

I disagree with this statement. The figure & speed skaters, skiers of the past Olympics have always been the best in the World. Simply because they were not in a league did not mean they were amatures.
Could you imagine the Olympics without Sean White this year? That would be like cereal without milk!!

Olympic Games

Until the late 20th century the Olympic Games nominally only accepted amateur athletes. However, successful Olympians from Western countries often had endorsement contracts from sponsors. Complex rules involving the payment of the athlete's earnings into trust funds rather than directly to the athletes themselves, were developed in an attempt to work around this issue, but the intellectual evasion involved was considered embarrassing to the Olympic movement and the key Olympic sports by some. In the same era, the nations of the Communist bloc entered teams of Olympians who were all nominally students or working in a profession, but many of whom were in reality paid by the state to train on a full time basis. In 1982 Adidas was paying British Olympic athletes to wear their gear. The first Olympics to officially accept professional athletes was 1988 in selected sports and 1992 in the remainder.

So in other words, amateur athletes were the only ones allowed to participate in the games until 1988. And that point the athletes who did participate in the games that were considered 'pro' were only considered that because they had endorsements from companies such as adidas, not necessarily because they were in fact a professional athlete. The origin of the games was for amateurs, but if you wanna argue that bringing in pros has made the games more watchable and enjoyable then I wont disagree with you.

[DUX714]

I'm not being sarcastic when I ask, "We're you born prior to 1980? Those "kids" gave everything they had and defeated "The Big Red Machine" and then went on to win the gold medal. From an American perspective I can tell you that it is more thrilling to watch up and coming "kids" competing and giving it their all on a world stage than seasoned professionals.

I am old enough to remember. It was a great moment in US / Olympic history. That being said, wasn't the Russian team basically a pro-caliber team? A group of guys that had been playing together many many years and were far past their teens? (which makes the US win even more impressive).

that why is was called the Miracle right? A seasoned professional team from the Soviet Union was beaten by a bunch of kids from the US. Great stroy, but one not likely to ever happen again. The playing field is more competitve now than ever and that is a good thing.

[Tomato Assasin]

I can't believe Bettman has the right to stop players from playing for their own country. I hope some players go even if they are told not to like Ovechkin said he would. If it was a exhibition game and meant nothing I could understand. But its the Olympics. Also, the argument about players getting injured (to me) is ridiculous. They could just as easily get injured in an NHL game during that time in back-to-back games. If the coach or whoever wants to pick an amateur player then they should be allowed to just as easily as NHL players and if they think they are more "right" for the role then fair enough.

[RGS_Quack93]

Also, the argument about players getting injured (to me) is ridiculous. They could just as easily get injured in an NHL game during that time in back-to-back games.

See the difference here is that the player would be at least playing for the team that is paying them the $$. If the player is injured playing a NON TEAM game then the club who is paying that player gets screwed.

[Todrick]

See the difference here is that the player would be at least playing for the team that is paying them the $. If the player is injured playing a NON TEAM game then the club who is paying that player gets screwed.

Which is the reason most NHL contracts include clauses banning things like motorcycle riding...

[DUX714]

See the difference here is that the player would be at least playing for the team that is paying them the $$. If the player is injured playing a NON TEAM game then the club who is paying that player gets screwed.

Simple, make the players who want to play for their countries take out an insurace policy that covers the team if they get hurt. Call it the NHL AFFLAC policy.

Better yet, have the IOC pay for the premiums.

[Todrick]

]Better yet, have the IOC pay for the premiums.

They couldn't afford it.

The premiums on such a policy would be insane...

How do you calculate loss in a case like... let's say NJ... if Brodeur gets injured... career ending injury... how do you calculate the potential loss of ticket revenue and possible championships to the Devils...

What sort of losses would the Capitals face if Ovechkin's career ends?

[DUX714]

They couldn't afford it.

Well the system wouldn't be perect. Hey, if the policy were to just pay the salary the NHL team would be on the hook for then at least the team is covered in one fashion.

By your statement, what do you do if a guy gets hurt water skiing in the summer and has a career ending injury. Or gets in a car accident. Who is responsible then? The player? We are talking about a very small percentage of something of that magnitute possibly happeneing.
IDK, maybe all NHL players should live in a bubble when they are not on the ICE in a NHL sanctioned game.

[Todrick]

maybe all NHL players should live in a bubble when they are not on the ICE in a NHL sanctioned game.

The Teams lawyers would probably appreciate it

[ahtikullervo]

See the difference here is that the player would be at least playing for the team that is paying them the $$. If the player is injured playing a NON TEAM game then the club who is paying that player gets screwed.

At national team he would be at least be playing for his COUNTRY. And yes federations pay the insurances, so the team paying his salary is not hurt as much as they claim...

[20rules]

I can't believe Bettman has the right to stop players from playing for their own country.

What's Buttface's email? He's such an idiot!

[Reb]

I am old enough to remember. It was a great moment in US / Olympic history. That being said, wasn't the Russian team basically a pro-caliber team? A group of guys that had been playing together many many years and were far past their teens? (which makes the US win even more impressive).

that why is was called the Miracle right? A seasoned professional team from the Soviet Union was beaten by a bunch of kids from the US. Great stroy, but one not likely to ever happen again. The playing field is more competitve now than ever and that is a good thing.

You are quite correct. "The Big Red Machine" was made up of "amateurs" that were officially assigned to the Red Army. And yes, they did train and play together for years and that was all they did. And yes again, Al Michaels just seconds before the end of the game screamed into the mike, "Do you believe in miracles?" and a couple of seconds later he yells, "YES!!!!!" We, the USA had finally beaten the cheatin' Soviets. I know it was the team on the ice that actually won the game, but at the same time every US citizen that I knew felt like we were part of that team. We were electrified. I don't get that same feeling watching NHL players.

[Duckbill]

I'm not being sarcastic when I ask, "We're you born prior to 1980? Those "kids" gave everything they had and defeated "The Big Red Machine" and then went on to win the gold medal. From an American perspective I can tell you that it is more thrilling to watch up and coming "kids" competing and giving it their all on a world stage than seasoned professionals. If I may sorta quote a favorite coach, "I'm not lookin' for the BEST players, ... , I'm lookin' for the RIGHT players."

I was born in 1982, but you don't need to explain the Miracle on Ice to me. IIt's one of the best movies ever, it's the best Sports Call in History, I HAVE A JIM CRAIG AUTOGRAPHED 8x10, It's one of the reasons I am a hockey fan.

But there is a reason that game is known as THE MIRACLE on ice. That doesn't invalidate my point that a team of amateurs/college players is not going to routinely defeat teams with professional-caliber players. The difference today is far greater than it was 30 years ago. Russia's players in 1980 we're definitely elite, but the best of the best from Russia, Finaland, and other countries today are insanely good and they just won't lose to teams of amateurs. The US won the Junior Championships, you think they would stand a chance against a team with Ovechkin, Malkin, and Kovalchuk? With a guy like Bryzgalov in net? Sergei Gonchar on the blue line? That would be next to impossible in a meaningful game.

These players aren't just Russia's elite, but they've proven to be among the best in the entire world. Furthermore, countries like Sweden and Finland have grown incredibly strong as well. If we take away NHL players from the US team then we'll become a doormat for countries whose elite players are not bound by such restrictions. Sure maybe our scrappy young bunch would win an upset or two, but very rarely would we do so in a way even remotely as meaningful as 1980. If you think that, just because of that one game (no matter how amazing it was) that our amateur players can compete with other countries professionals, you'd be wrong.

My concern is that Ice Hockey as a sport in the US has taken some lumps as of late and that if we put a team on the ice that cannot compete with other countries and they put up poor showings in the Olympics then it hurts the development of the sport here at home. I'm not saying we have to win, but look what strong FIFA World Cup showings have done for our national soccer teams and the development of that sport.

By your statement, what do you do if a guy gets hurt water skiing in the summer and has a career ending injury. Or gets in a car accident. Who is responsible then? The player?

Lots of professional athletes have clauses in their contracts prohibiting them from activites that involve a high risk of injury, such as mountain climbing, or riding a motorcycle. Sometimes they even get prohibited from stuff like pickup games of basketball. If an athlete gets injured water skiing and he has such a clause, then he's not going to get paid and it's his own fault. If a team doesn't put that in a contract, then it's the team's fault for not doing so and tough luck to them.

Car accidents are just that, accidents, nothing a team can do in that situation but grit their teeth and wish it had never happened.