73 replies to this topic

[Barmy Army]

Some of you may be aware of the league set ups in Britain but there has been a bit of a unfortunate reshuffle that concerns the clubs that some of us follow. This is something with angers and saddens me as I feel this has been done in a spiteful and underhanded way. Here's the problem.

There is a few leagues in this country and they are all governed by different bodies. These are the two main leagues that I mention on here as a few of us support some of the clubs. This was the set up as of last season.

British National League
Dundee Stars, Fife Flyers, Edinburgh Capitals, Newcastle Vipers, Hull Stingrays, Bracknell Bees and Guildford Flames.

Elite League
Belfast Giants, Cardiff Devils, Coventry Blaze, Sheffield Steelers, Basingstoke Bison, Nottingham Panthers and London Racers.


The Newcastle Vipers announced a few months ago they were joining the Elite league. Then Edinburgh asked to join leaving the BNL in tatters. Both Hull and Bracknell have announced their plans to join the English Premier League (a league below the BNL) which left my Stars, KD's Flyers and the Flames stranded without a league. There was an Elite League meeting last night to vote on the application of the three remaining clubs, all three were rejected. This was announced at the charity match Craig was at in the Dundee rink. One of the Stars owners made an announcement after the game to say that they were working on keeping a team in Dundee.

I wasn't sure if us joining the Elite was a good move but it would have been a step towards one league and we could all work together for the good of the sport. But instead we (Dundee, Fife and Guilford) were tossed aside in favour of clubs that are not as secure (Edinburgh and Newcastle) and this could be a fatal mistake for the game.

This is why my signature says that we are the last BNL play off champions because the league has imploded due to politics and hidden agendas.

[Barmy Army]

Wow it even got mentioned on the BBC We hardly ever get British hockey coverage on the BBC.

A STATEMENT FROM DUNDEE TEXOL STARS

Following the decision by the EIHL bosses to exclude Dundee Texol Stars from their league next season, the directors are currently in negotiations to secure the future of professional ice hockey in Dundee.

The Ward Brothers said today, 'As we announced at the NHL game last night, the news from the Elite League was not totally unexpected as there seems to have been a hidden agenda in the thought process of their members.  Therefore we have been working behind the scenes to form a six to eight team professional league encompassing teams from Scotland and England.  Although these discussions are at an early stage the import level is expected to range between four to six players in season one.'

The Wards continued, 'We have built Dundee Texol Stars from scratch to become one of the most successful clubs in the country and we are determined to put all our efforts into making this league a success and the way forward for ice hockey in Scotland and England.  We have already secured a major sponsor for the league and the commitment shown by this company expresses their confidence in the product we are proposing. The concept of this league is to provide a secure route for young British players to progress through the ranks of the clubs' burgeoning junior development programmes, to the professional game.'

The Wards underlined their determination to bring continued success to their main sponsor Texol, the best fans in the UK, the business community who have supported the club throughout the past four years, to Dundee Ice Arena and to the City of Dundee

I'm not happy about this situation but I'm very happy that the Ward family are not giving up.

There is a couple of other teams in Dundee that play in the Scottish National league( the Stars can't join this league) so if the Stars do fold then we will still have local hockey it just won't be the team we invested so much time, passion and money into. Fingers crossed the Wards can find a way out of this mess.

[Veca]

Is it something in the hockey ice??? Look at the mess here and now what is going on with you guys. Just what is going on here???

[Barmy Army]

Well the situation is stirring up some mixed feelings on THF (UK hockey board with fans from all over the country and the leagues) there is a lot of bitter fans out there. The worst part is that there is still no offical statement from the Elite League explaining their decision.

A lot of fans are angry and refuse to go to any of the Elite league games. I know I for one am not impressed with the behaviour of Newcastle (sorry Kimi) and Edinburgh. I have in the past always had a soft spot for Edinburgh and even moaned at a few people on here to go to games at Murrayfied to boast the dewindling attendences. But not now, it's just not right. I can't travel to away games due to my back but if I could I think I would boycott certain teams.

We go through heated debates on THF during the off season as some people want one league in this country (me included) and others don't. We had a chance on Thursday to stop all the bickering and look forward to creating something that had potential but that was tossed aside. And I don't like the way it was done. I am very angry at the way some teams have only thought of themselves and pleased others at risk.

One of our forum friends is a writer for the local paper and see said that she was receiving phone calls from a few of the import players on the Stars team asking for any news. We have good quality players that love this city, that love the fans and want to come back. The owners started the team from scratch and have continued to be held in high respect with the fans, they are great guys and are very determined not to lose pro hockey in Dundee again.

I wonder what Kilted Duck's feelings are on this? His Flyers are our main rivals and have been for decades (throughout the different hockey incarnations in Dundee) but we don't hate each other. It's a friendly rivarly and I worry about them too in this debacle. Obviously they will be one of the teams that the Wards are hoping will be interested in a new league. I hope We can resolve this mess and save Dundee, Fife and Guilford from folding. We've lost enough teams in this country.

Sorry for going on but this is important to me and I'm a bit uncertain about how to feel.

[Barmy Army]

Stuff'em , we ain't going quietly.

*starts singing*

Stars fans wherever we may be,
We are the fans and we're from Dundee,
We'll win this game wherever it may be,
Cause we are the fans and we're from Dundee.

[Kimi]

Well, things have fallen into a sorry state over here. I'm lucky as the Vipers got into the league, but I've not Idea what could happen with you three that are left. I can't see why they can't join the elite leauge. I'm sure a 12 team league could work quite well. On reason I think you wern't excepted was that they were only ever going to let two teams in or somthing like that, first come first surved?

I hope you guys get to keep your team and have some hockey next season!

[Barmy Army]

Thanks for your good wishes Kimi, it's just a complete mess as always

There is something else that I hadn't mentioned (this gets more and more complicated) there is rumours that the Elite League are setting up a tv deal that is supposed to be for a league of a minium of ten teams. Also there is the undecided matter of Manchester, who are members of the league already but don't have a rink at the moment to play out of. They are attempting to get a rink built to play out of for next season. This doesn't look likely.

I don't think it's a case of first come first served. I think there is more to this and it involves personalties. Like I said before this has been building up for sometime and there has been plenty of ocassions for all the teams to sort something out so no club would be in difficulty. Some of the Elite League board don't like some of the management from the remaining clubs. Which is pathetic but I'm slighty cynical and think this was one of the reasons for the rejection. I think they are only thinking of themselves instead of the overall picture.

I hate to say this Kimi but I worry about your team too. The Vipers have had finanical problems this season and I hope they have managed to turn things around for next year. Moving to the Elite league is a big step for them. Edinburgh is another worry too, they struggled to get mediocre attendences in the BNL and will have to try very hard to raise interest in the sport again. They are trying to get Tony Hand back so that could boost their profile.

Ohh it's all just details now, the fans have been screwed and it doesn't really matter why. We just have and we have to try and focus on positve things to save us from going under. Thankfully the Ward Brothers have a back up plan, fingers crossed it will work.

[Veca]

I guess fans are the last thing most hockey "big shots" think about.
I just have to agree with you Barmy, it's got to be personalities and politics behind such a strange move.....hope it works out for you and you will still have a team in town next year.

[Barmy Army]

Thanks Veca There is a charity fun game on this evening at the Dundee Rink that we are going to, it's made up of the British players from the Stars, a few from the SNL team and one of the Reccy teams from the area. I still have a cold but I'm going to the game It's an annual thing and we've always enjoyed them in the past.

Maybe we'll hear some more info about the furture of the Stars this evening.

[Veca]

Enjoy the game and I hope you will hear some good news.....

[Barmy Army]

The charity game was great but there wasn't anymore rumours about the furture for us.

Just found this press release on THF from the Hull Stingrays, one of the BNL clubs that are hoping to join the EPL.

STINGRAYS PRESS AHEAD WITH TEAM-BUILDING PLANS

Excel Hull Stingrays are pressing ahead with plans for the new season despite having no confirmation of their acceptance into the English Premier League. Stingrays submitted their application before the April 30 deadline, but must wait until the EPL's AGM on June 11 for the official green light.

However, team owner Mike Pack said he and wife Sue, plus coach Rick Strachan, have little alternative but to move ahead. Pack said: "Given the timescales involved, we've taken the positive view. "The AGM does not take place until June 11, but we have to start thinking about season ticket prices and teambuilding, otherwise we risk not being prepared for the start of the new season. "We're setting the ball rolling on as many issues as we can on the basis that a positive view will be taken of our application."

Stingrays are favourites to take one of the three places apparently on offer in the EPL, with Bracknell and Sheffield touted as likely to fill the others. That would make a 12-team league, although Guildford and Cardiff are rumoured to have also applied. The existing members, though, have apparently requested the league is limited to 12 in 2005-06. While Cardiff do have a top-flight Elite League team, it would leave Guildford with nowhere to play following the collapse of the British National League. Guildford are one of three BNL teams - including Fife and Dundee - whose applications for the Elite League have been rejected this week. It leaves the farcical situation whereby three of the sport's most well-run teams are in severe danger of having nowhere to play next season.

Geographically, Flames are perfectly placed, but Fife and Dundee fall outside the EPL's remit. It has led to suggestions it is politics rather than pounds which is dictating the future of the sport. Pack said: "I feel very sympathetic to all three clubs.
"It's a disgraceful situation that three of the strongest and most stable teams in British hockey are struggling to find a league, while teams far less stable seem to be embraced into the Elite League. "I'm still convinced this is not the end-game. "In a couple of years' time the whole structure of the sport is likely to have gone through more changes. "It's unbelievable there are ice hockey rinks in Britain that have no professional team while others are operating at a level which does not seem sustainable."

There may yet be another twist to the saga as Dundee have now pledged to try and get a four to six import league, involving English and Scottish clubs, off the ground.

[Barmy Army]

The plot thickens...

Guildford Flames Press Release

The Guildford Flames professional Ice Hockey club, in preparation for the upcoming season, have submitted an application to be a competing member in the English Premier League when the puck drops at Spectrum in September 2005. The British National League, where the Flames have competed for the past several seasons, currently has 4 teams remaining following the departure of a pair of those clubs to a different league while 1 club stepped away due to the loss of a major financial backer.

The club believes that joining the existing league structure of the EPL is the best solution for the Flames competitive aspirations because it is already a well established and stable set up that allows the Spectrum side to compete in a league that carries many of the same objectives as the BNL in terms of the development of British born talent, while also carrying a significantly larger team membership meaning a far greater degree of opponent variety for supporters. The league also brings back more geographical rivalries that have escaped the club in recent years with many of the BNL clubs competing out of the midland and Scottish regions, while the majority of the EPL teams are within 3-4 hours of Spectrum, including the Slough Jets who will help re-new an old local derby rivalry between the two outfits.



Flames Commercial Manager Kirk Humphreys commented on the new league structure:

It is important to remember that we have applied to the EPL, but are not yet an accepted member. We understand that decision will be made in early June. However, looking ahead at the prospects of competing in that league we are excited about some of the benefits it will bring. Of course, as usual over the summer signing period, a core of our current players will return to pull on the Flames shirt including some of our foreign players, but the real benefit of the league is that our younger British players, under EPL rules guidelines, will have opportunities to be given larger shares of ice time to allow them to attain their potential while competing at a high level. Our Guildford Junior programme has always sent some of this countrys top British players to the senior level, but this will allow a larger fraction of those to begin their professional career here in Guildford. The under 19s this season lost just a single game in the league table and have now advanced to the playoff finals. We would expect some of them to graduate and move up to the Flames on a full time basis in 2005-2006. Also, from a supporters standpoint it will be great for them to get to see many of the teams who at one time were also BNL members. Milton Keynes, Peterborough and Slough were always top clubs in the league and we are certain that people are going to be excited about seeing these teams again on a regular basis.

Still no official info from Fife...

[Veca]

I'm sorry, I know I'm old and often get confused, but here it seems to be quite plain......No to three very well run teams that have a large fan base and now are facing having no league to play in and some teams with problems are accepted.

Sounds just screwy to me......

[Barmy Army]

Sounds just screwy to me......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's bascially British hockey in one brief sentence Veca.

Oh well onwards and upwards, the Elite league made their point on Thursday so stuff em I don't care about their little hidden agenda, I care about hockey in this country and in my town. I hope all the teams in Britain flourish no matter what league the play in. But yet again I say that the sport can't get better until it's united and under the control of one league. Maybe that's just a dream

I have faith in the owners of the Dundee Stars, the Wards haven't let us down yet. They are a dedicated hockey family and don't want the sport to dwindle either.

I'll post anymore updates as and when I get them.

[Barmy Army]

FIFE Flyers moved a step closer to forming a new league this week – by taking a 10 year step back. The Kirkcaldy club is leading talks aimed at creating a Northern Premier League that would slash the number of import slots to four per team. Not since the mid-1990s has such a set-up existed in British ice hockey. And although discussions are still at a delicate stage, club spokesman Stuart Scott insisted that going back to the days of reduced imports will benefit the club – and the game as a whole.

Click here for full article

[DropThePuck]

Well, it sounds like they're heading in the right direction to build local fan support. Hopefully they'll be able to pull it all together Barmy! At least they're all pulling together ... unlike our NHL idiots.

[Veca]

Reduced prices, I like the sound of that. If they can pull it off, you Barmy will be able to go to more games without draining your wallet. Sounds good to me!

They are trying and sounds as if they are thinking of the fans. What an alien concept over here.......

[jigglypuff]

Ha my flat mate is a big flyers fan and he's been told by an 'inside' source that the Flyers and Stars are back in talks with the elite league due to the league needing 10 teams in it to get a TV contract with Sky and as Manchester arn't going to join this season things are looking up. Also GB hockey carn't let the oldest team in the league just fade away! plus Scotland is a bit more into hockey than the English I've found and so to have just Edinburgh that would be stupid! plus think of the travel time for teams all that way just to play Edinburgh and Newcastle!

Lets hope

[Barmy Army]

Sorry I don't have any hope. The Elite league fixtures have been announced and they don't want us or Fife. The League is going ahead with 9 teams not ten. Yes Manchester can't join at the moment as they don't have a rink but they will probably be back next season.

I'm not saying the info you heard is wrong it's just not current. That info was on the rumour mill a few weeks ago. We had been hoping that both Dundee and Fife would be approved as we don't want one club favoured over the other. But it looks like the door has been closed for now. The is an issue that is being discussed/argued about at length on loads of British hockey forums including the one (THF) that Craig and I use all the time.

There is a public meeting at the Dundee Ice Rink on Thurdsday to discuss the future of Dundee and Fife. I'll post the info that we pick up and let you guys know what's happening but it certainly looks like we won't have Pro hockey in Dundee this season. Maybe next year......

It may not surprise you to know that I probably won't be a huge supporter of the Elite league this season. I'll still post score updates for those of you that support the the teams but don't have access to live updates. But you may notice that I won't be as dedicated as before. The hidden agenda's and poliltics has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

We need one unified League in the UK or things are just going to get worse.

[jigglypuff]

They've F**ked everything up, I have to say that the Cap's aren't the type of team I would want to repressent Scotland, even though I'm English I still would want better than that!!

Barmy just think when the caps lose every game the Elite league with see it F**ked up! I would much rather see flyers (even though they beat my Panthers) or star.

Screw the Elite league

[jojo983]

something needs doing about the hockey in the UK. I did some work experience for the London Knights a couple of years ago and went around with the community officer. It just showed me how much people don't know about hockey over here. Whoever is in charge of hockey UK needs to do more things to promote hockey. All this stuff about 2 leagues is patheic.
Seriously thinking about emailing the British hockey people and telling them how it should be done.

[Barmy Army]

Craig went to the meeting this evening and basicallly there will be no pro hockey in Dundee this season. Here's a quick overview about what was discussed, Craig posted this on the Stars site and was happy to let me borrow it for here.

The main thrust of the meeting was a confirmation that entry to the EIHL had been refused, and that the Wards will be focusing their attention onto the SNL Stars for next season. They are in discussions with the current SNL teams and the SIHA over a possible increase in the number of games in the SNL season, and could possibly include some sort of cross over with a couple of teams from the ENL North. They are also hoping to persuade the SNL teams to relax some the restrictions on who can play in the league (i.e. players over 30), but it will definitely remain non-import.

For any newbies to this issue the SNL is the Scottish National League and is a league below the one the Dundee Stars were playing in. The SNL Stars are a farm team for the Dundee Stars.

Craig said that the issue of the Fife Flyers wasn't discussed due to the fact that they didn't have any representatives at the meeting. The Ward brothers had been in contact with the team but they had declined to comment. There was some Fife fans at the meeting and they weren't too happy that their team hadn't joined in with the public meeting.

Craig will give you a run down on the meeting tomorrow, as I'm sure you can understand we're just not in the mood at the moment.

[Veca]

Ah, Barmy!! I feel for you...

[jigglypuff]

That's shit utter shit, the elite league need shooting, they are accepting the caps the crappest scottish team and rejecting the oldest club and only scottish team to win any silver wear!!!!!!!

I'm not a big fan of the Stars or Flyers but I'm a fan of British hockey and this move is killing it.

I feel for you Barmy I'm so angry

[Barmy Army]

Article from our local paper.

I honestly don't want us to play in the Elite league next season especailly if it means we are waiting on a team folding. That's not how I want my team to survive. Craig told me that it was mentioned at the meeting that Dundee was grudingly offered a place but not Guilford or Fife, the Wards weren't happy about that. They wanted all the clubs to survive and were trying to work towards protecting all the clubs and rightly so.

I'm hoping that the Wards manage to get another league off the ground. Maybe we can get a unified league in a few years as the people that are running the Elite clearly aren't focusing on the sport as a whole.