I go to a ton of hockey games and watch a ton of hockey games that do not involve the Ducks. However, I only cheer for the Ducks if they are playing in the game I am watching. I see no problem with cheering on good hockey players on other teams when there is no Ducks sweater out there. For instance, I would sit there and cheer Lubo on and turn right around if the Queens happen to be playing say Detroit and cheer for a great play by Fedorov -- both great players in my opinion who -- oh gee, became Ducks!

You think you could make it to a Pens-Caps game? Ya know, 8 and 87? It's worth a shot...

I'll try for Sid but not for Ovie. I'm actually quite satisfied with Getz, Pears and Bobby.

Huh. I'd take Ovechkin over any of those three right now, deadline be damned....

Really?

Crosby isn't the best player in the league... he's not even the best on his team.

Plus his face... it... well... It just makes me want to punch it.

there, I said it.

I'd take Crosby over any of those three as well. I love Getz, Pears, and Bobby, but both Ovechkin and Crosby are better, and have plenty of great hockey ahead of them.


How about this? Would you give up 15, 10 and 9 for 8 and 87?

Who of the four players in this conversation do not have either a Stanley Cup or an Olympic medal? I rest my case.

Ask that same question 3-1/2 months from now and the answer may be nobody.

you misunderstood me...


Leagues Best:
Ovechkin
Malkin
Crosby

in that order.



I think you case may be resting because it dropped dead...

Marcel Dionne was a beer leaguer too I assume.

No, I figured that's what you meant. All I was saying was that I would swap any two of Perry/Getz/Ryan for Ovechkin and Crosby yesterday. At 5 AM. In my sleep. I might even swap all three for those two.

Amen.
We don't have a single player of their caliber...

Getzlaf probably could be... but he's too lazy

I'd take Dionne right now. He's still alive, right? If he hasn't assumed room temperature, get him a jersey...

Remember after the Cup when Getz said on live tv, "We played our balls off."

Maybe that need to be the slogan for the last 19 games. Can some make t-shirts that says

DUCKS HOCKEY

We play our balls off

A more accurate one might be:

DUCKS HOCKEY

We play hard when we feel like it

And here's the thing with those five players. They are the players they are going to be. Ovi and Sid entered the league and "BAM!" They haven't "developed" into great NHL players. They were the first time they hit NHL ice.

Getz, Perry, and Ryan? They are never going to be that type of player, imo. Very good NHL players. Not transcendent. There's a reason Sid and Ovi are the face of the league. East coast has about 30% to do with it. The other 70% is because they are both witches...



Great call out! What a tube...

True - I was hoping the slogan I wrote would help them remember what it is like to be hungry and give a damn.

Yeah, unlike Kings fans, some people are hockey fans as well as fans of their team.

i think what killed them in a way was getting a cup at 22 (?) after barely getting their feet wet in the NHL...
look at Teemu, Jiggy, T-bone, Prongs... those guys have played, injured themselves, lost miserably, fell short of a game or two, questioned their ability to stay in the league... and FINALLY some after a decade some a bit earlier WON IT!
whereas it was "ok... we made it to NHL... i hear they have a cool shiny cup in the end... whoa!look at it!" with Twins...

That really slowed down Sid...

Sid didn't take it the first year... he was constantly told that he is the best but it took him some time to get the cup... 4 years actually... Getz took it in his first full year in the NHL
that's first...
and second... they have different personalities... it's been told over and over again... Getz needs motivation (usually as i understand it something big and shiny at the end), Sid doesn't...
i wish Getz was like Teemu in the sense that he juts LOVES the game... you can see that Teemu is beaming when he is on the ice... it seems he would not be able to survive without this game in some way or another in his life. he is hockey, he doesn't just play it.

Part of the problem is the young guys all think the are Joe Namath!! Hey maybe I am a little jealous, but I think if these guys were settled down with wife and family they might be better and more consistant on the ice.

Most GM's would disagree with you - including the Penguin's own GM. Crosby is valued more highly than Malkin.

I'd also take Crosby over Ovechkin, but for different reasons. Ovechkin is the better individual talent, but if I want to make my team better I'm picking Crosby. Not only is he the more complete player, but in big games Crosby has a history of showing up while Ovechkin seems to come and go.

I'm not buying it.

Thing about Crosby is he needs a team... He needs good players to make him great...

Ovechkin on the other hand is good enough to do it by himself... and if given a decent player to work with(Morrison) he makes them better.

Nothing like coming into the Lubomir Visnovsky trade thread and reading a discussion about who's better - Crosby or Ovechkin?

He needs good players to make him great, Todrick? Have you seen the linemates he's had? That argument is ridiculously flawed. Crosby gets players like Guerin and Kunitz. Not exactly studs. Hell, on the blue line he had Whitney too, who was usually playing when he was on the ice. We're not talking the cream of the crop, Todrick.

And you don't think good players help Ovechkin a crapload too? Does Backstrom not ring a bell? Or Mike Green? You think it's a coincidence that his goals went up with Backstrom as his center?

Every player needs a team. That's one of the things that makes hockey great. But Ovechkin is the one who has had better linemates most nights recently.



Sorry.

I just find the argument old and tired. Crosby might be over-hyped, but for Todrick to imply he's a product of the players around him is just stupid.

As much as I would love to agree, I can't. Look at their rookie year, 2006. Both had obviously impressive point totals, but neither had any big names to work with. Crosby did it on is own (102 points). The next highest scorers for the Penguins that year were Gonchar and Recchi with 58 and 57 points, respectively. It's hard to say they were the ones to propel him that high.

Ovechkin in 2006 had 106 points. The Capitals' next highest scorers were Zubrus and Halpern, with 57 and 44 points, respectively. Not much help either.

Therefore, saying Ovechkin is better because he can do it without help and Crosby can't just isn't true. The stats prove it.

The respective Rosters the last 3 years and the accolades prove the opposite...

Ovechkin:
NHL All-Rookie Team: 2006
NHL First All-Star Team: 2006
NHL First All-Star Team: 2007
NHL First All-Star Team: 2008
NHL First All-Star Team: 2009
NHL Player of the Year – Sporting News: 2008
NHL Player of the Year – Sporting News: 2009
NHL All-Star Game Selections: 2007
NHL All-Star Game Selections: 2008
NHL All-Star Game Selections: 2009
Calder Memorial Trophy – NHL Rookie of the Year: 2006
Kharlamov Trophy – 2006
Kharlamov Trophy – 2007
Kharlamov Trophy – 2008
Kharlamov Trophy – 2009
Lester B. Pearson Award (Most Outstanding Player): 2008
Lester B. Pearson Award (Most Outstanding Player): 2009
Hart Memorial Trophy (Most Valuable Player): 2008
Hart Memorial Trophy (Most Valuable Player): 2009
Art Ross Trophy: 2008 (112 points)
Maurice "Rocket" Richard Trophy: 2008 (65 goals)
Maurice "Rocket" Richard Trophy: 2009 (56 goals)

Crosby:
Art Ross Trophy (Most points in the regular season) 2007
Lester B. Pearson Award (Best player as voted by his peers) 2007
Hart Memorial Trophy (Most valuable player in the NHL) 2007
NHL First All-Star Team 2007
NHL All-Rookie Team 2006
NHL All-Star Game 2007
NHL All-Star Game 2008
NHL All-Star Game 2009
Mark Messier Leadership Award Jan. 2007

That does not "prove" one or the other does it without help. If I could have one or the other crosby is a no brainer for me for a variety of reasons. If you actually look at who they play with I think most would agree that Ovechkin has better linemates (not saying anything about depth, 2nd line etc) than crosby does. In fact - I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that.

I get the impression you havn't seen many pens or caps games.

It's basically a question of belief in the end with those two. Crosby is definitely not just a product of his linemates, which at times have been made by Crosby (as Colby Armstrong), although other players like Malone that were supposed to live and die due to Sid have proven to be valuable in other spots as well. He is great, no doubt about it. I do however agree that he did have more of a supporting cast than Ovechkin, at least until this year. In the end, I personally prefer Ovechkin, because I find his game more interesting and I can stomach some of his borderline dirty plays easier to stomach than some of Sid's dives - another one of which happening tonight. (Ovie has had a couple himself, but not nearly as regularly, imo.)

Anyway, both are elite players and a case can be made for both. It necessarily comes down to preferences and personal opinion.

Stating my case:

I would say Ovechkin is better because he can score and pass as well as Crosby, but he can also play physical, be defensive, and play every other aspect of the game. I have rarely, if ever, seen Crosby play defense, and he does not play anything near a physical side of the game. One "fight" doesn't count.

there may be a little bias in my opinion because I cant stand Crosby but I'd pick Ovechkin over Crosby any day.... even Crosby and pick and id choose Ovi.

Crosby is over-rated, hes just thrown in all of our faces so damn much that he gets the hype. Im sorry but look what Ovi does, I might not like the dirty hits and stuff but if he was on my team I'd love them. Ovi plays with grit and attitude... Crosby plays with...a baby face and a halo given by NBC.

Crosby the next Gretzky? PLEASE thats BS, Crosby cant take over a game like Gretzky did. Ovi has shined way more when his team hasnt shown up than Crosby.

I dislike both of them but in terms of who is the better player, ovi

Who cares? I soitenly don't.

well, not until one of them becomes a DUCK!!!

I get the same impression about you.




Right, But it's clear that Crosby didn't win the Cup or his Gold medal without a strong team...

to site those as reasons that Crosby is better than Ovechkin (which was actually done in this thread) is absurd.

I honestly can't see how anyone who is not a Pittsburgh fan could pick Crosby over Ovechkin...





Right Ovechkin has single-handedly delivered victory on a silver platter... repeatedly.

Crosby may... MAY have done it once or twice.

---------------

This thread would be more useful if it had a poll at the top...

can a mod do that?

I agree, and the "what has x won" argument to me is one of the most annoying ones in hockey. It's a team game. You can't compare two individuals and expect to make a case for one saying his team won titles. It doesn't prove a thing. It's why people get the unreal idea Fleury or Osgood might be better goaltenders than Luongo or Lundqvist.

The Pens have obviously been a better team than the Caps at least until this season. Crosby helped, but so did Ovechkin for the Caps. The difference wasn't Crosby outplaying Ovechkin, the difference was the rest of the line-up.


I wouldn't necessarily go that far, though. As I said, I am more of a AO supporter myself, but it comes down to what style you prefer. Both of these guys can be dominant the way they play. I prefer Ovie, but I wouldn't necessarily call someone a Pens homer for taking Crosby.

Who cares?

I say Sid cause Ov is dirty

But I love watching Ov

Ovie may be dirty but Sid is quite the whiner.

Ovechkin because he is entertaining to watch. The way he plays is why I like hockey over any other sport.

Ungh Mike Meyers was wearing a Crosby team Canada jersey on Jimmy Fallon's talk show on N.B.Crosby.

From what i hear, alot of players dont like Sid. Hes a cry baby on the ice and not many respect him. I wouldnt be surprised to see more guys taking runs at him, especially after the Olympics. Just look at the NY game, Lundqvist was tired of sids crying and diving, he actually got in Sids face cause of it.

He is dirty though, watch when he hits, he leaves his feet almost every time

That was the EXACT game I was thinking of when I made my last post. Crosby just dives way too often (and way too obviously) and he's a big baby.

And if he was on the Ducks we would love it haha

ya we would love it but imagine how many penalties he would take in a ducks uni

And imagine how many goals...

Ovi